On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 08:10:38 -0500, "symplastless"
John, I have to tell you, based on your behavior, constant spamming
with your links, and ongoing taunting, I wouldn't call you as an
arborist if you were the last one on earth.
I understand you are passionate about this, but give it a break, man.
Nobody asked you to constantly post links over and over ad nauseum.
You turn off many people and it isn't because your information is not
right, it's the presentation. It's old aready.
You're right. Its accurate to say if you plant tree too deep, it will have
problems. (Then, leave you hanging exactly how deep you should plant a
tree...) (Of course its a generic tree since it addresses no specific
species). (Of course, the depth of planting too deep is never defined...)
Strangely unspecific, generic and nowhere to go...
Oh, the generic tree. Should we rake up the leaves under the generic tree
in fall, or leave them be (Y/N)? No specifics, please. No weblinks,
Planting southern yellow pine for forestry application recommends planting
above the root collar, just enough to cover it.
As for your last question, is the generic tree in what zone? Wild or
On Sun, 2 Dec 2007 01:16:28 -0600, "Dioclese" <NONE> wrote:
put it this way, it is ultimately always better to plant ANY tree too
shallow than it is too deeply. The root or trunk flare must be above
ground on any tree, period the end.
Raking leaves is a good idea when it comes to fruit trees. The
leaves, fruit droppings and pits or seeds can carry disease so should
be removed. For ornamental trees it is best to leave the litter, but
in that case I would recommend you shred them with your lawn mower
Agreed. But, what is too shallow, what is too deep for ANY tree? The
weblink Symplastless said to go to has no reference. No tree specified. No
depth specified. Leaves the reader hanging, wondering "now what?" in
exactly what is too deep or too shallow. Remember, no species of tree is
Was hoping one of the posters who advertised themselves a arborist would
jump in for an appropriate answer. Should have known better....
Okay. Common trees in our area. Native Live oak (early spring only
leaves), Native Juniper ashe - blueberry (needles fall anytime), Pecan
(leaves in fall season). Some Yankees are saying to keep the leaves raked
up due to what you said on fruit trees applies to ALL trees I've read in
similar newsgroup. Course, the common sense types have said "poppycock" as
nature shows otherwise in a natural setting.
"Dioclese" <NONE> wrote in message
Simple. You plant the tree, whatever species, most of the time, at the
depth the roots come off the trunk. people here plant trees so deep the
branches are coming out of the ground.
Do you know the anatomy differences between a woody root and a woody stem?
Trees do not have root flares, they have trunk flares. You should look
ariound and find a tree biology workshop to attend. Then you will be able
to answer your own question.
Roots down, stem up. Mulch to be kept at least 6" from the trunk flare.
3-4 inches thich and flat. Whatever species. Its not rocket science.
Get the book MODERN ARBORICULTURE to learn about trees. I will bet you
never read the book. Yet you complain about poor instructions. MA is a
lucid book. READ! READ! READ! THINK! THINK! THINK! PLEASE PLEASE
PLEASE. Can't afford the book. Come visit me and I will give you one.
What more can I offer you? Other than that maybe you don't like trees? I
do not know!
On Mon, 3 Dec 2007 17:16:17 -0600, "Dioclese" <NONE> wrote:
When you dig a hole for a tree to be planted, the hole should be no
less than twice the size of the root ball. If the tree is in a
container, the same rule applies. Keeping in mind the bottom of the
hole where you'll insert the tree will need to be roughed up. Better,
first, when you dig a hole to plant a tree it should not be smooth. It
should be jagged and have rough sides which you can achieve with the
spade by jutting it in the sides of the hole and bottom. This aids
the roots until they develop and can push through more dense soil.
The plant or tree in the container or balled and burlap then goes in
the hole you freshly dug and where you see the level of soil around
the tree IN the container, is where your general guide is. Do not
plant the tree (of any kiind) any deeper than where it is in the
Now, there is another rub, the tree industry is notorious for planting
the tree too deeply in the container! In that instance you should
pull the soil away from the bark of the containerized plant until you
can see the flare at the bottom of the tree and keeping in mind the
soil in the hole will settle, place the tree into the hole with the
understanding the tree will settle deeper than you originally planted
it. So, the level of soil the tree is in, IN the container, should
never be below any of the freshly dug hole.
One last thing (and ask further questions if you need to know more);
never amend the soil which you will backfill the hole with. ONLY use
the native soil which came out of the hole and do not add anything to
it. By amending the soil you are setting up a condition for the tree
to be in a "container" in the soil and roots will wrap around and
around in the hole the way it does in container. Eventually, the tree
will decline. Just use the soil as is to fill it back in and then
water it slowly for a good period of time to get that soil really wet.
I did leave out one step; always thoroughly soak the roots while it
is still in the container. Make certain that root ball is completely
saturated and if you use liquid seaweed to water it while still in the
container it will greatly increase root development and help with the
stress of transplantation.
The only trees I rake the fallen leaves away from are fruit trees.
That doesn't mean I don't mulch them. I use fresh mulch every year
and I avoid mulch made of walnut trees.
For live oaks I always leave the dropped leaves in spring. I have
several old growth live oaks which are doing very well and I never
remove the leaves. Every other year I may vacuum them so they get
chopped up in the blower and I put them back down in shredded form. It
helps the macro and micro organisms digest them.
I hope this helps. If now, keep asking. Trees are the most valuable
items you can add to your home which will give you back twenty times
the amount you paid for them when you do sell the house.
I am sorry about the repetition. I do not repeat as much as humans are
incorrectly treating the trees. That is what really gets old is the false
advice and low quality tree care that takes place. Just look at the way
people mulch the trees. Its sad. I will keep with the same message.
However, if Don Staples can provide data that is peer reviewed and published
that suggest I am wrong, I would be happy. However, its just a matter of
name slinging and noise. Not to mention the fowl language.
Where is your definition of a forest or forestry Don Staples? At least I
define my terms. You present noise. Look that one up after forestry.
Beware of so called foresters who do not understand the ecological stages of
trees with respect to the chemistry between them and their
Sorry, I have not and will not produce a useless so called dictionary. Your
definetions in your terms has little to do with reality.
Peer review and published? Where is your peer review, tree hacker? Where
have you published, other than your web site, and there usually reposts of
Dr. Shigo's work.
Beware of so called consulting arborists that have never studied biology,
and never was an certified arborist.
"Here I am" - teaching tree biology at ASU.
How do you explain that Mr. Expert or so called expert that believes to
understand tree biology one MUST belong to a trade association. You are
wrong. I belong to ADP. I guess you do not know what that is.
You probably believe if we do not cut trees we can not wipe our butt. How
about separating the forest from the tree farms and legalizing commercial
hemp? What about that Mr. expert.
So, show your education that you are a "teacher". By definitions in
your personal dictionary, you can be a teacher, just not certified, huh,
I wait with bated breath your definition of what professional
organization ADP represents, and when you joined, if it is such.
Hemp has been discredited for years, why do you continue?
Again, consulting arboist/tree biologist, show me where I claimed to be
anything but a forester.
Beware a semi literate clown calling himself a consulting arboist.
HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here.
All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.