We’re in the process of reducing our dependence on gas and whilst whilst a heat pump and induction hob will meet 99% of our needs, we have a standalone wok burner that runs on gas. Now I know that induction wok burners exist they’re quite a lot of money and we have the gas wok burner which only gets occasional use.
Until we decide to invest in an electric wok “burner” I wondered about conversion to propane and storing the cylinder on the other side of the wall (which leads to our integral garage).
Are there any regulations that forbid this? Plumbing a cylinder from outside isn’t really an option.
Having a LPG gas hob with a connection to cylinders outside is quite commonly done. Sometimes with a pair of cylinders and a changeover valve. (handy if that is your only power for cooking, so it is important that you don't run out).
BS 5482 covers the specific rules for butane and propane burning appliances in domestic settings. Extract below [1]
BS 5440-2 covers ventilation requirements for cooking appliances. If the room volume is < 5m^3 then you need 100 cm^2 of permanent venting, 50 for rooms between 5 and 10m^3 (none for larger rooms)
[1] "11.3.1 Cylinder location
11.3.1.1 General The cylinder position should afford ease of access to facilitate changing and quick removal in case of necessity. Cylinders should be installed in the upright position with valves uppermost so that only vapour is withdrawn in use. Cylinders should be located outside buildings in the open air and situated on firm, level ground in a well-ventilated location (see Figure 2). The minimum dimensions for the location of cylinders from openings in the building, and untrapped drains are shown in Figure 2. Cylinders should be located: a) where they remain readily accessible at all times; b) where they do not obstruct any means of access to or from the premises; c) where they are protected from accidental damage. Where necessary, suitable protection should be provided against possible damage or interference by persons, animals or vehicles. Cylinders should not be stored, located or used:
1) in a cellar, basement or sunken area;
2) less than 1 m, measured in the horizontal plane from the nearest cylinder valve, or less than
300 mm, measured vertically above the cylinder valve(s), from fixed sources of ignition, unprotected electrical equipment, excessive heat sources, readily ignitable materials etc., or apertures in the property, e.g. doors, openable windows, ventilation ducts, air bricks, flue terminals;
3) less than 2 m, measured in the horizontal plane, from untrapped drains or unsealed guides or openings to cellars, unless an intervening diversion wall not less than
250 mm high is provided;
4) within 3 m of any corrosive, toxic or oxidizing materials, unless a fire-resistant barrier is interposed. Cylinders should be located against a wall or structure. When selecting a location for cylinders, consideration should be given to positions which are adjacent to a wall or structure with a fire resistance of not less than 30 min, or for residential park homes, the fire resistance should conform to the requirements of BS 476-7. Consideration should be given to the degree of protection necessary (if any) for environmentally exposed locations. Associated equipment, e.g. manifolds, automatic changeover devices, pressure regulators, should be located as close as practicable to the cylinder(s)."
11.3.1.3 Butane cylinder location
11.3.1.3.1 General Only butane cylinders should be used inside residential premises (but see 11.3.1.3.2). Butane cylinders sited inside a permanent dwelling, supplying fixed installations, should be located in a housing with a half-hour fire resistance (see 11.3.1.2.).
11.3.1.3.2 High-rise buildings and flats Butane cylinders should not be used under any circumstances in high-rise unstrengthened large panel system built flats. Butane cylinders should not be used in any premises where the use of mains gas is also prohibited. Not more than 15 kg of butane should be stored or in use per unit dwelling. Cylinders should be located so as not to impede any means of escape.
the first obvious issue is that if the cylinder leaks, you are better off having that leak to the open atmosphere rather than a garage where the propane level could build to unacceptably high levels and cause an explosion onc e aspark appears such as from a light switch.
So I expect you will be forced to ensure that what ever enclosure or room you have for the cylinder must be well ventilated.
Also you will need sleeving if the pipe passes through any cavity walls.
so say for example your gas pipe is 15 mm, you would put in a length of
22 mm pipe through the wall and then run the 15 mm pipe through that. The outer sleeve will need sealant at both ends to the wall (This prevents any leaking gas getting into the wall cavity.
Also there are regualtions about the minimum air change and ventilation rates when using gas appliances indoors so you may need to put in air bricks if there is indufficient room volume to accommodate the wok burner (gas appliances normally state a mimum room volume requirement.
You will also probably need to think about a CO detector and a heat detector in the room too.
I'm not a gas engineer but they are the issues I have come up against when having gas ovens and gas hobs and gas boilers all installed in the same room.
It seems common in an area where friends live that butane cylinders are used for gas hobs, and the cylinders are kept inside. No mains gas in the area.
alan_m snipped-for-privacy@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote
I have always used propane in a decent sized cylinder when camping and keep it in the house for when there is an electricity supply failure. I have only ever needed to use it for that once, but that's irrelevant.
Most people here use propane BBQs, but those mostly live outside. I do have a couple of those cylinders and a big portable gas hob that I plan to use for the massive great stock pot when making marmalade every coupld of years but haven't gotten around to using it yet for other reasons.
Yeah but, it won’t be outside. It’s an integral garage that on the other side of the kitchen wall.
Hmm, that would seem to rule out inside my garage then.
Curious. I wonder why butane cylinder storage is permitted indoors but not propane?
From reading all the rules it look like I could use butane (if I can get appropriate jets) and have the cylinder in a fireproof/fire resistant enclosure. Annoyingly I have propane cylinders and I think Calor have stopping swapping cylinders for other types/sizes.
Given that domestic heaters exist which have internal gas bottles, it can't be impossible to have a bottle inside the garage, or even hidden in a kitchen cupboard (yes there will be requirements for ventilation, sensors for flame failure and/or oxygen depletion).
I think they are all butane heaters with internal bottles no larger than
15kg. John Rumm's post on the BS but IIRC the b/g is that propane is at higher pressure at room temperatures and there were some nasty explosions. Among other things fire brigades were a bit shy of going to house fires where a load of propane might be waiting to do a Red Adair on the shout.
Butane needs to be kept (well) above -2C for use. Propane needs to be kept above around -40C so can be stored outside
The jets should be available. Where friends on mine live, and where butane fuelled hobs are common, the local gas fitters seem to have them on their vans as standard :)
Propane is heavier than air so it sinks to the ground and would escape under doors unlike 'Town' gas (Not sure of the correct name) which is lighter than air so builds from the ceiling down. By the time it reaches a light switch or whatever it makes a fine bomb. The exception is a boat where propane would sink to the botom of the bilges and build from there with the expected results. A well made boat would have an appropriate extractor bilge fan which should be run briefly before starting at least.
Every clause quoted above from BS 5440-2 uses the word "should". Most of the standards documents I have come across distinguish between "should" and "must". The difference between them is that "must" means you have got to do it, whereas "should" means that is a good idea to do it, but you don't have to.
I've read the other comments in this thread and just want to add:
- It's going to cost you money to make a safe and acceptable conversion for a device which you appear to intend to pull out and either throw away or repurpose at a later date.
- Do you have any data on how the new gas pressure, pipes and jets will affect the performance of your existing gas wok hob? Will you still be able to get the searing heat that you are probably used to?
- It looks to me as if £500 is a price point for consideration of induction wok stations and woks. There are models well under this figure and, of course, many that are far more expensive than that.
Standard electric woks don’t come anywhere near the wok cooking experience. You want heat, and lots of it. Our wok burner is better than a standard gas hob in term of output but induction wok “burners” provide masses of near instant heat. The fact that you even suggest a £20 camping stove rather highlights your lack of experience with a decent wok burner! ;-)
I could just bite the bullet now and go down the induction route but to replace our built in gas domino unit would probably be in the order of £500 or more depending on brand. Countertop ones are much cheaper but built in would be nicer.
The point is, I could store the gas in the garage literally just 12” away on the other side of the wall. Plumbing the gas would be easy. If I can get the appropriate jets and if it’s legal to have a gas cylinder in my garage this would be a simple solution.
I always thought that wok cooking required a very high rate of heat transfer. Electric woks even at 1400W wouldn't seem to meet that requirement. On our gas hob, there is a central (5th) burner said to be intended for woks, and it is rated at 3kW. I can well believe that as it has a two concentric rings of gas burners.
It looks like there are pro induction stoves intended for woks. They are rated at 2.7 or 3kW.
Is it mandatory to have the final installation, whichever it is, installed and certified by a Gas Safe engineer? I.e,does it fall into the "should" or "must" category?
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