Storing and using propane in a house

[fred]

[John Rumm]

Having a LPG gas hob with a connection to cylinders outside is quite commonly done. Sometimes with a pair of cylinders and a changeover valve. (handy if that is your only power for cooking, so it is important that you don't run out).

BS 5482 covers the specific rules for butane and propane burning appliances in domestic settings. Extract below [1]

BS 5440-2 covers ventilation requirements for cooking appliances. If the room volume is < 5m^3 then you need 100 cm^2 of permanent venting, 50 for rooms between 5 and 10m^3 (none for larger rooms)

[1] "11.3.1 Cylinder location 11.3.1.1 General The cylinder position should afford ease of access to facilitate changing and quick removal in case of necessity. Cylinders should be installed in the upright position with valves uppermost so that only vapour is withdrawn in use. Cylinders should be located outside buildings in the open air and situated on firm, level ground in a well-ventilated location (see Figure 2). The minimum dimensions for the location of cylinders from openings in the building, and untrapped drains are shown in Figure 2. Cylinders should be located: a) where they remain readily accessible at all times; b) where they do not obstruct any means of access to or from the premises; c) where they are protected from accidental damage. Where necessary, suitable protection should be provided against possible damage or interference by persons, animals or vehicles. Cylinders should not be stored, located or used: 1) in a cellar, basement or sunken area; 2) less than 1 m, measured in the horizontal plane from the nearest cylinder valve, or less than 300 mm, measured vertically above the cylinder valve(s), from fixed sources of ignition, unprotected electrical equipment, excessive heat sources, readily ignitable materials etc., or apertures in the property, e.g. doors, openable windows, ventilation ducts, air bricks, flue terminals; 3) less than 2 m, measured in the horizontal plane, from untrapped drains or unsealed guides or openings to cellars, unless an intervening diversion wall not less than 250 mm high is provided; 4) within 3 m of any corrosive, toxic or oxidizing materials, unless a fire-resistant barrier is interposed. Cylinders should be located against a wall or structure. When selecting a location for cylinders, consideration should be given to positions which are adjacent to a wall or structure with a fire resistance of not less than 30 min, or for residential park homes, the fire resistance should conform to the requirements of BS 476-7. Consideration should be given to the degree of protection necessary (if any) for environmentally exposed locations. Associated equipment, e.g. manifolds, automatic changeover devices, pressure regulators, should be located as close as practicable to the cylinder(s)."

11.3.1.3 Butane cylinder location

11.3.1.3.1 General Only butane cylinders should be used inside residential premises (but see 11.3.1.3.2). Butane cylinders sited inside a permanent dwelling, supplying fixed installations, should be located in a housing with a half-hour fire resistance (see 11.3.1.2.). 11.3.1.3.2 High-rise buildings and flats Butane cylinders should not be used under any circumstances in high-rise unstrengthened large panel system built flats. Butane cylinders should not be used in any premises where the use of mains gas is also prohibited. Not more than 15 kg of butane should be stored or in use per unit dwelling. Cylinders should be located so as not to impede any means of escape.

[Fredxx]

The BSS mandates the items I have stated. There is no 'should' about it. Either it passes or its your boat out of water. So I'm not sure what you're saying?

[Fredxx]

No. If it's a live-aboard then any work must be carried out by a competent person, or Gas-Safe if payment is involved. If not a live-aboard then it's classed as a mobile vehicle where anyone can work on the gas system.

It would be prudent to have the system checked over in either case. Gas detectors are always recommended bit not mandated whereas CO detectors are mandated for the BSS.

[Davey]

I didn't think that there was a mobile vehicle concerned here, I thought we were talking about a possible gas cylinder installed on the other side of a wall, possibly, but not certainly, in the adjacent garage, otherwise in the open air.

[Fredxx]

I was confusing another subthread that mentioned boats. My bad.

[Davey]

No problem, it happens to us all. But my question still stands re: domestic propane/butane plumbing work.

[Robin]

The answer ashore is as Fredxx gave: any "competent" person can do the work but only a Gas Safe registered person can do it for reward. More at

[Davey]

Thanks. I had tried the Gas Safe website, but it is "closed for maintenance". I wonder if a competent programmer is doing the work?

My question is due to my having to replace the auto switchover valve for my Calor Gas cylinders, which live in a lean-to shed, and feed a hob indoors. I have the new valve assembly, I consider myself to be competent, but if anything were to go wrong in the future, whether or not it was on the parts that I had assembled, per the instructions included, would my insurance company claim that the lack of a Gas Safe certificate automatically cancelled my insurance? If they knew that the valve had been replaced, of course.

[Fredxx]

Last time I looked Gas Safe uses devious words like "works" on gas. When the act says "paid work" or employed to work on gas. Be wary of the words they use when their website is back up.

Check Part B:

3-2 and subsequent paragraphs deals with someone employed to work on gas.

For you the important part is 3-1: "No person shall carry out any work in relation to a gas fitting or gas storage vessel unless he is competent to do so".

Regarding boats and vehicles including campers and caravans is covered by 3-8

Part F covers landlords who must ensure any work is carried out by (Gas Safe) class of 'persons'.

[Fredxx]

Is the shed suitable ventilated?

There are techniques to check for leaks on the LP side that you need to get acquainted with. Not much you can do for the high pressure side apart from leak detector fluid.

[Davey]

There is no front to it, it is open to the world.

[Harry Bloomfield Esq]

+1 They do like to twist the wording, to the benefit of them and their members.

[Harry Bloomfield Esq]

There is a quick, simple and easy check for leakages...

Turn the valve on to pressurise the system, then off. Leave it some while, then go back and open the valve a second time slowly - if you hear a hiss, some gas pressure has been lost, due to leakage.

Some small amount of leakage is almost inevitable.

[Tim+]

I was under the impression that with bottled gas/lpg, no leak was tolerable. Now I dare say that there is a time period for “no leak” though, but certainly over normal leak testing periods for natural gas it shouldn’t show any pressure drop.

Tim

[Robin]

I had a vague recollection it depends on installation volume of there are appliances connected and this seems to support that - see Table 3.

[Harry Bloomfield Esq]

'no discernable drop, over the tested period', but all gas installations do leak a little, which is why the test period is timed. As a more regular, quick test, I turn the gas on, then off - several hours later, I will go back, reopen the valve, and listen for any hiss. Any hiss, due to it needing to repressurise, suggests a more substantial than normal leakage.