Why do portble generators make such a big deal about starting watts?

[Tamborino]

Why do portble generators make such a big deal about starting watts?

I'm looking to buy a generator for general purpose use either during power outages (rare) or when I need electricity far from the house (especially

220VAC for things like my wheeled Wards Power Kraft 230 arc welder).

My budget is $500 (wife imposed - and no - you can't overrule Her). All of the generators have about a thousand watts more for peak rating.

Why do I care? What is the peak rating used for and for how long?

[Tamborino]

In addition to the peak rating question, I have a question about the connection to a transfer meter which requires a "NEMA L1430R Locking Outlet" to connect to the transfer meter that I will be getting.

This generator says it has a RV Ready TT-30R 30A outlet but is that the same as a the "NEMA L1430R Locking Outlet" or is it different?

[micky]

I like these two features:

Push-Button Electric Start pairs with key fob and is backed by emergency recoil start Dual fuel operation easily switches from gas to propane without shutting off unit

I rarely go to walmart but I'm going in a few minutes. Do you want me to pick one up for you?

[hubops]

Electric motors - like those powering your sump pump or well pump or refrigerator or furnace blower - - will have a considerable starting surge - then will run at a lower continuous wattage. Your portable generator has the peak rating to ~ account for such short duration surges. When my grid power goes off, I will run my well pump first - with no other loads - because of its big starting surge - to store enough water for a day or two - then shut the well pump off and then supply other household loads. If my furnace, sump pump, fridge, freezer were to all start at once - it would probably trip my 5 kw Honda - but so far so good. John T.

[micky]

This might help,

It gets me when there is something everyone has and knows and they give some complicated name for it. not that this is that.

[hubops]

... the wattage might be the least of your problems ! .. you'd better buy a generator that provides 220 volts if you wish to supply a 220 volt device. John T.

[Tamborino]

I found out they're different. I need the NEMA L1430R Locking Outlet because that's what the power company says it needs to connect to.

This explains those strange non-intuitive NEMA classifications.

NEMA L1430R L=locking 14=120V/240V single phase, four wire, three pole 30=30amps R=receptacle (female)

NEMA TT-30R (120V only) TT=travel trailor 30=30 amp R=receptacle (female)

So that generator is out but this one doesn't say what the spec is.

It just says "120/240V 30A twist lock outlet" but I don't know if they're all the same or not when they're both 120V and 240V twist & lock. Are they?

[Scott Lurndal]

That's a NEMA L14-30 receptacle.

[Tamborino]

This is so difficult because they don't tell you the plugs properly.

For example I'm looking at this but it only says "120-Volt/240-Volt 30 Amp twist lock" but it doesn't say what kind. It has pictures but I can't tell from a picture (I guess if I knew a lot more, I could tell from an image).

My problem is (a) I can't have everything, and worse (b) there isn't any one generator that has what any other generator in that range has.

So it's a horrible mix to choose among given the hard-coded price.

My main (wife-imposed) requirement is it has to be within $50 of $500. I am trying to get the most I can out of that $500 +/-$50 limitation.

The only requirement is the power company transfer meter (which they will install later as they're out of stock) requires a NEMA L1430R Locking Outlet. I'm guessing I need to make a male-to-male cord to connect to it.

Everything else is up to me but I like dual fuel, electric start, carbon monoxide shutoff and wheels. There are different kinds of electric start, some with keys and others with a button and some even have a remote.

Nice if it does both electric and recoil start if the battery is dead. As for the power output, I just want the most watts I can get for $500.

It's nice if it comes with that male-to-male power cord but I can make it. It's also nice if it comes with the propane hose to connect to 20gal tanks.

Obviously I'd want as many 120VAC 20A or 30A GCFI outlets as possible. And maybe USB (or at least a cigarette lighter receptacle).

Maybe even a gasoline gauge and/or an ammeter (but these are just niceties).

The problem is that it's hard to tell from the descriptions since there is no standard way they report such things (if there is, I can't find it).

The list I've looked at is the following but I'm not done looking yet.

I wish they had a standard way of reporting what the four prong twist locking outlet was as that's the only critical feature it must have.

[Tamborino]

Thanks.

I found that out by calling Duromax at 844-0387-6629 just now and I spent

45 minutes on the phone with two people on their customer support team.

They said all the Duromax outlets that say 'twist' or 'rv ready' are the NEMA L14-30R which is really confusing because an RV outlet is apparently only 120V (NEMA TT-30R). The lady said to look at the shape and if it's big and round and has four holes, it's the NEMA L14-30R outlet (we hope).

Why 'rv ready' means NEMA L14-30R and not NEMA TT-30R makes no sense to me.

They also said the difference between peak and base is six seconds. After that, if peak load persists, a circuit breaker will trip.

I'm going down the list as we speak trying to get the most bang for the buck, where the Duromax gal said the electric starts use a motorcycle battery (which will be useful in a few years when it's dead) and that they can all be started with a pull start if the battery can't start it.

I forgot to ask if they can run without the battery.... do they? (Some motors can't.)

[Tamborino]

Thanks for that helpful information about peak versus base watts.

When I called Duromax just now they told me it's for six seconds. After six seconds, the circuit breaker will trip if the load persists.

While I was on hold with Duromax, I found this which says different things.

They suggest a calculation of adding up all the watts you think you need, and then adding, on top of that, add the additional starting watts.

But who knows all that information about their home appliances? Not me.

They suggest plugging in an ammeter, which is a bit too technical for me. Do you do that?

What's a good minimum number of watts to not bother buying at the $500 price range? I'm guessing it's around 5000 to 4000 (peak vs starting).

Does 5K/4K watts sound reasonable at the $500 price range?

[Scott Lurndal]

An RV adapter cable has a NEMA L14-30P on one end which plugs into the generator, and a NEMA TT-30R on the other end for the RV. Only one of the hot poles is connected in the NEMA L14-30P, the other one is left vacant, basically converting from four wire 240V (H, H, N, G) to three wire 120V (H, N, G) for the RV.

[micky]

You might be able to find the owners manual online. That will explain. Some websites are very good about links to manuals. They won't sell this but the mail-order company in Virginia that sells electonics.... Crutchfield! ... is iirc very good at links to manuals.

"2 120V household GFCI outlets, and 1 120/240V 30A twist lock outlet. "

I think it's likely its switchable from 120 to 240 and probably comes set to 240.

OR, if there is one in stock, I'd buy the proper plug at homedepot and go to the store and see if it fits. Given the variety, I would do this no writh any generator I was considering buying. Not just with electric plugs but with a lot of things you can see if something fits in advance.

[Ralph Mowery]

They will run without the battery. It is not needed if you want to pull the rope to start it. Some of the generators only have a 120 volt outlet. Those are mostly RV ready. Some will have an option of 120 and

240 volts and some that have 120 and 240 volts will allow you to parallel the output so that you will have 120 volts at two times the current if you do not need the 240 volts..

I do not know about all RVs but many of them seem to only need 120 volts.

I like the dual fuel ones that run on gasoline or propane. For the house I have a small 3.5 kw dual fuel and only run it on propane as the power is not out very often . I have another gas only that I crank up if the power is out a long time and I need more power. That way for short outages I do not have to drain the fuel out of the gas one.

While you are at it you may want to check how much fuel the generator will use.

[micky]

Not disagreeing with you but exploring "if you wish".

Like most posters, the OP doesn't say what the situation or the goal is.

I gather, but I'm not at all sure, that he has a travel trailer he plans to use this with. But maybe it's just for home.

If it's a trailer, what could he use 220 for? If he stays at a campground, do they have 220v hookups? If it doens't or he's not a campground, what uses 220? The oven? Will he be baking cookies or roasting roasts, or cooking on a grill, outside? If not the oven, what? (Do these things even have an oven?) So does he really need to spend extra for 220?

If we knew what his situations and goals are, everyone of us could give more helpful anseers.

[hubops]

Don't just rely on the technical specifications and price ! I paid $ 1200 for my Honda EM5000 - used ! - - at an auction sale in 1999 ... .. it's still in my garage and still starts on 1 or 2 pulls. It was previously used by a painting contractor - but not much. My use is the very easiest - emergency power during outages - but it has seen me through a few long power outages without a hiccup. .. plus many short outages. Everyone's use and expectations are different .. ... your $ 500. price restriction limits you to the discount units at the big box stores - unless you find a deal on a used Honda ... or similar .. Your expected use and expectations make-or-break the unit ... John T.

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[micky]

It's very interesting. Reading this thread and the various links, I want to get a generator. Even though I have no actual use for one** or any place to put it. But I love this stuff and I want more of it.

**Haven't had a power outage for more than 2 minutes in 5 or 10 years. Even if I did, in the summer no big problem. In the winter, I'd go to a motel. But I like all those outlets aned swiches.

Does this mean I'm gender-male?

[micky]

I've only camped with a tent, or a sleeping bag and a plastic sheet, or one night with nothing at all**. so I don't know much about hookups.

Once I was at a campground and I asked the girl at the desk, Can I get a hookup here?

She slapped me.

I don't know why.

**It was a campground in south Jersey and a hot, very humid night, and I found a place away from everyone, and I slept naked with no covers all night. Just wanted to see if I could do it. None of the people I was with said anything the next morning so I guess no one saw me.

[Jim Joyce]

Possibly not a popular suggestion, but in addition to checking the used market I'd also suggest taking a look at Harbor Freight.

[Tamborino]

Thank you for answering that as I was wondering how they converted the

240VAC NEMA L14-30R to half the voltage for the 120VAC NEMA TT-30R.

What's a "pole" by the way? Polarity? Is the number of "poles" the number of H & N wires?