Why do portble generators make such a big deal about starting watts? FAQ

it has 4 prongs. Does that mean what voltage you get depends how many prongs your plug has (and how they are wired.)? Whatever harborfreight does, the others *probably* do too, but it's not for sure.

"Gas Powered". I presume this means gosoline. Only.

No electric start. Did those other two both have that, or only the expensive one?

Is it true as I've heard that you can get a better price if you go down to the harbor?

There's also this one for 469 but it doesn't LOOK anything like the others.

since we don't know the OP's planned use :-) , I really don't know if this would fit or not.

The big drawback is it is 1400 watts That is less than a 15 amp 120 volt circuit. It is an inverter unit meaning it is not speed sensitive

- same voltage and frequency at idle and full throttle - speeds up and gets louder when under full load. 110 volt only - no twist-lock

Any breaker we are likely to see can pass more than its rated current for a short time. The further above the rating the shorter time. For sustained 6x rated current trip time might be about 2 seconds.

Breakers are typically 80% of their rating for continuous loads, which is over 3 hours. A 100A breaker may trip if used at over 80A for over 3 hours. This applies to the breakers in your house panel and may or may not apply to a generator.

Watts are a measure of the true electrical power. With an inductor, like a motor, part of the current goes into storage in the magnetic field of the inductor twice in a cycle and comes back out and is added back to the source twice per cycle. This results in volt-amps that are higher than the watts a motor uses. (The effect is described as "power factor".) A generator is only interested in volt-amps, and likely it is the volt-amps of the loads that should be compared to the watt rating of the generator.

If you have significant incandescent lighting loads, they have an "inrush current" at turn-on that is about 6x the normal current, but very short time. Probably not significant in your application, but no one knows what you are doing.

If you are powering everything on at once you need to add all the starting amps (times volts) and compare to the starting watts. If you power on the largest load first and then separately add the other load you can use a smaller generator. Or, like John, you can run different loads at different time periods.

For a conventional (induction) AC motor the starting amps is about 6x the running amps. The Locked Rotor amps are roughly 6x the Running Amps.

I'm not sure why people are saying I didn't say what my plans were to use it for as maybe they didn't read the original post before saying that?

The power company says they are out of stock but their plan is to do everyone in the area with what they called a transfer meter.

I'm sure it's completely automatic but what do I know.

Here are a few meter mounted transfer switches direct from power companies.

The 30A 220V Ward PowerKraft 230 welder is secondary to running the house when the power is out. Running the house is the normal stuff everyone does.

The PDF says it's automatic but it's not really as you can tell below. (If you skip steps 1 and 5, I guess it's automatic though, right?)

The BPTM is designed to automatically switch over to generator power if there is a loss of utility power and a generator is properly connected and started. In addition, the BPTM will automatically switch back to the utility power once it has been restored.

1. When there is a power outage, turn off all the circuits on the main breaker panel in the house.
2. If you have solar panels (PV system), make sure that the disconnect between the inverter and the circuit breaker panel is open (OFF).
3. Start your generator, making sure that there is plenty of fuel. Follow all safety guidelines supplied with the generator.
4. The BPTM will automatically disconnect the utility lines and connect the generator lines to the house's main circuit breaker panel in about 14 seconds.
5. Turn on the appropriate circuits (that can be serviced by the generator) on the main breaker panel. The circuits that are turned on should not exceed 7200W (see guidelines later in this document).
6. When utility power is restored, the BPTM will first disconnect the generator power for about 6 seconds, then connect the utility power back to the main circuit breaker panel. You will notice a slight flickering of the lights when this happens.
7. Once the BPTM has connected the utility power back to the house, the generator can be stopped and, if you prefer, disconnected from the BPTM.

Oh- you did say use. But depends on what you want to run. Furnace, refrigerator not much. Electric heat, air conditioner, electric hot water, electric stove a lot more. Turn everything on at once? Run in different time periods?

I have never heard of a "transfer meter" - presumably a utility meter with a manual transfer switch. You will almost certainly have to turn off some?many circuit breakers before transferring. The meter had better have an "inlet" connection for the generator - a male connector - that connects to an "outlet" at the end of the cord. If the connecting cord was male-to-male, with the cord connected to the generator, and generator on, the other male end is hot and exposed - unsafe.

I am too lazy to look up the welder. It contains an inductor (transformer). Also depends on welding amps you are using. RTFM?

He did:

The output of the second is about 80% higher than the first, so of course it uses more gas. Don't they run at a pre-set speed, regardless of how much electicity is being used?

I don't think that's true of the national power grid. Although I don't think they slow down specific generatores, I think they stop running some fuel powereed generators when demand is low, and even hydropower, I would guess they bypass one of the turbines when demand is low (Unless demand is never that low and hydropower is free, cheaper than burning fuel at another generator in the system.)

Ooops. In another post Clare said abot a small model ". It is an inverter unit meaning it is not speed sensitive - same voltage and frequency at idle and full throttle - speeds up and gets louder when under full load." Since the one above is not an inverter unit, I'm not sure if that supports or contradicts what I wrote claiming pre-set speed for the one above.

OTOH, some of the ones that have two small wheels and are called " RV Ready" weigh 100 pounds. Do people with RV's really lug a 100 pound generator in or out of their RV when the park. And how do they get into or out of the RV when they stop for just an hour or two. Isn't the generator blocking the door or the aisle?

Or do they tow the thing!

I did forget what you said, but rereading it it was because it was so general. At home during poweer outages (when else?) or maybe far away.

Some people have an electric stove, others have gas. Some have heatpumps and some even have electric heat.

So I don't know what everyone has.

any "ac generator" is VERY speed critical. The rotating speed directly affects the frequency. Inverter generator rpm is load dependent and has no affect on frequency (because it is a DC generator)

useful

The grid frequency has a plus/minus range of ~ .4 Hz. usually in the plus/minus .2 Hz. range. Alarms sound at ~ .6 Hz. to indicate a very serious problem. Certain generator units / stations are " tuned " to react/respond to the normal load fluctuations and adjust their output - - to correct things. . Don't confuse grid power with your little home genny. I scoped my little Honda and was dismayed with the dirty wave - harmonics .. but no matter - it works. John T.

Welcome home ! ... Schmidtsville beckons .. John T.

You may want to look up in the actual welder manual what welding amps you can get with the current available from the generator you are looking at - is that enough to do the welding you want to do.

I'm about to make my choice but the two I'm looking at are not "inverter" models (I don't even really know what it means to be an inverter model).

Both have 12VDC (one is a cigarette lighter and the other has two posts), which, I guess, is used to charge the battery (is that what it's for?).

Both are 224 cc but one has about 700 more nominal watts claimed but I don't usually believe any advertised horsepower or wattage figure - do you?

The more expensive one is 25 pounds heavier (which is a lot for a 100 pound generator). When I asked the salespeople why it's so heavy, they told me the others use aluminum wires and that they use only copper wires.

They said the copper wiring is the most expensive part of the generator.

Do you believe them? I don't know who to believe.

You can't tell from the advertisements because nobody seems to say what kind of wires they use except one company which says they use copper.

How much of what they told me can you give me a background foundation on?

I'm about to make my choice but the two I'm looking at are not "inverter" models (I don't even really know what it means to be an inverter model).

The only expected use is to power the home when the power (rarely) goes out and to run the 30 Amp arc welder in the one situation I have to weld afar.

Are those "speed critical" applications?

Mine is going to have to stay outside 24/7 and I'm already at the maximum budget with tax included so I won't be buying a $25 optional cover either.

At the $500 price range, I think these are the best two I can find so far.

Nominally the Duromax XP5000EH has about 700 more watts but I don't know where they get it from since the Wen DF430X has the same 224cc engine size.

The Wen, on the other hand, has a carbon monoxide sensor, which the Wen salespeople told me that a hundred people die a year who don't have it.

The Duromax XP5000EH is said in the specs to be 69 decibels while the Wen DF430X is said to be 72 decibels but I don't know how to interpret 3dB.

While both are electric start, both salesmen assured me they start with the recoil mechanism if the "12VDC SLA" battery is dead (and it will be dead).

Both have 12VDC but the Wen DF430X has it in the form of a cigarette lighter socket while the Duromax XP5000EH uses a red & black set of posts.

Neither one of them says what the output amperage is on that 12VDC outlet.

I'm not sure why they have 12VDC but I guess you can hook up that 12VDC output to the battery to charge it - but a battery charger would be easier.

Assuming the battery is charged, the Wen DF430 comes with two keys so I assume if you lose them, you're dead - but I'm ok with the Duromax rocker.

Just to confuse me, the Wen DF430X says it comes with a 47-inch propane hose but the Duromax XP5000EH only says it comes with a propane regulator.

Both have a wheel and handle kit that comes with it so that's the same (although the photos show the wheels to be plastic on the Wen DF430X).

Both have two 120VAC NEMA 5020R GCFI outlets and one 240VAC NEMA L14-30R twist lock but the Duromax XP5000EH highly advertises the MX2 saying "This generator features our MX2 Power Boost, which doubles the 120V power for appliances and RVs."

How can you double power with just that "MX" switch? It's impossible isn't it?

I asked the guy on the phone what that means and he said that it switches to a larger circuit breaker but I don't even think the salesman knew what he was talking about as that doesn't double the power as far as I know.

Does anyone here know how that "MX2 Power Boost" doubles the power?