Electric cars a step nearer mainstream?

[Dan Sheppard]

I'm not sure where you're coming from with this problem of getting the power to the poles. I thought you were saying that the civil engineering of such was complex and irritating? I thought that lighting poles would have similar challenges (though admittedly, doing this at medium voltages would be a little more challenging).

I'm no expert on small factories, really, so I'm not sure. But I'm not sure what difference that makes because if you plonk a small factory where every carpark is, you've got a vastly changed energy landscape anyway.

I dunno, I'm sure the eggheads could sort something out with the connector: it doesn't have to be an exposed prong plug, after all. Could be something closer to a petrol pump connector with a flower like thing on the end, furled up (and earthed) when exposed, but then activated by an occluded nobble in the pipe which causes the outer casing to unfurl.

That seems like a bit of a pointless occupation to me.

Dan.

[Adrian]

"Bob Mannix" gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying:

You say that like it's a bad thing?

[Bob Mannix]

I was careful to not do that (or the opposite). It may be a factor that some had not thought of when assessing the likely benefits.

[Roland Perry]

In message , at 12:04:50 on Thu, 29 May

2008, Bob Mannix remarked:

This is not dissimilar to the situation with natural gas, whose price is apparently pegged to oil prices, and bears no relation to supply and demand in the natural gas market.

[Roland Perry]

In message , at 11:13:13 on Thu,

29 May 2008, Adrian remarked:

It is, if it fails to encourage drivers to switch fuels.

[Roland Perry]

In message , at 12:04:58 on Thu,

29 May 2008, Dan Sheppard remarked:

Exactly so. Many carparks are multi-storey, and constructed largely from reinforced concrete. Digging that lot up to run a power cable to every bay will be quite a feat.

No-one is suggesting replacing car parks with factories.

What, driving only 5 miles a day?

[Adrian]

The Natural Philosopher gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying:

Which they will be early in the morning, when everybody's just arrived.

That's for one short stretch of this road. Add in all the other commercial premises on this one road in this one town. Then add all the other roads in this town. Then all the other towns.

Indeed. A period of years during which demand slowly ramped up. In the early days of the motor vehicle, you bought a sealed gallon can of "motor spirit" from the chemist, then the local garage. Bulk sales didn't happen until at least the 1910s, and probably weren't universal until the mid '20s.

The problem of such a gradual shift over to electric vehicles is one of economies of scale.

[LSR]

How would the government cope with the loss of revenue? The last thing they want is everyone running VED-exempt cars using electricity that is duty-free and has only 5% VAT.

How do you heat an electric car in the winter? A paraffin or propane stove?

[The Natural Philosopher]

Get real. They already have surface trunking for lighting. Its only a ruddy car park. Not Buckingham palace.

When I was running a certain business, the power needed to run the 80 odd PC'S etc etc. was 25kW. in the 8 hours of day, assuming about a

5KWh usage per car, that office could charge 80 cars. Instead of running 80PCs.

I base those figures on a ten mile trip into work. That recharges for going home I assume the outward journey was an overnight charge.

i,e another way to look at it, is that on average a 50 miles journey might be say 20Kwh, Over an 8 hour charge period thats not even taxing a

13A socket.

Since the car doesn't get any heavier when charged..well maybe a few micrograms - there is no incentive to run low on charge. You would probably charge at every opportunity. On average most people wouldn't be using a lot of juice therefore.

Sure its a new way of using a car, but if the cost benefit is overwhelmingly in favour of electrics, people will put up with the slight inconvenience.

I'd alos say that the availability of a 13A socket is slightly higher on a 24x7 basis, than an open garage selling diesel or petrol.

[The Natural Philosopher]

I think you can rely on the government to find a way round THAT one.

Electricity would seem to be a sensible choice. We don't after all use electric heaters to heat petrol cars in winter do we?

[The Natural Philosopher]

Why? they wont all be flat. You ould easily dial in - say 'charge me at

8 hour rate' and just pull a trickle out. The lower the charging current the less the charge losses also. There would be little point in having a dumb charger anyway: typically lithium ion batteries like a constant current, with a voltage limit. Its a piece of piss to set the current to be what ever it needs to be to replenish you in an hour, ten hours, or a fortnight, depending on what the situation is. I.e. you might only have a 13A socket, or you might have a 440V 100A one. The charger would sense that and do what it needs to accordingly.

But it isn;'t. Thats what I am saying.

We already HAVE a grid infrastructure. As it gets loaded up it gets upgraded. Its far more akin to people saying 'whats the point in having a motor car when we only have roads fit for horses: we need motorways'

Well, we didn't need motorways for a long time.

[Mary Fisher]

We have access to many, never use them though ...

What an odd idea you have of other people's lives :-)

Mary

[Mary Fisher]

Same here. You can't be selective about tv programmes before they are broadcast.

Mary

[Mary Fisher]

Still doesn't answer my question, which was promted by your comment about widgets:

"Sorry but F.Bloggs Hauliers Ltd taking a pallet of

So you'll manage without your widget?

And you feel the loss of Indian restaurants ...

Hmm

>

[Roland Perry]

In message , at 16:55:59 on Thu, 29 May 2008, The Natural Philosopher remarked:

Won't that make the floor a bit bumpy? Car parks have wide areas where the only surface the vehicle is near, is the floor.

[Roland Perry]

In message , at 17:14:01 on Thu, 29 May 2008, Mary Fisher remarked:

What's that supposed to mean. I know in advance that I do want to watch next Saturday's Dr Who, and that I don't want to watch tonight's Eastenders.

[Rod]

Not, I suggest, as bumpy as the speed humps that are common in car parks. I thought about the rubber cable duct things used in offices, etc. - maybe a system could be based on that sort of design.

[Andy Hall]

The Nordics do.

[Mary Fisher]

Yebbut you might not enjoy Dr Who, but that episode might not be representative of the whole series.

How can you select what you might enjoy in advance?

Well, you might have advance notification of the enjoyment score but most people don't, that's why they say that most programmes are not worth watching. They had to watch them to know that.

And yes, I know that it's subjective :-)

Mary

[Roland Perry]

In message , at

21:04:58 on Thu, 29 May 2008, Mary Fisher remarked:

Some are better than others, but all are worth watching as far as I'm concerned. (Some are even in the "so bad they are good again" category.)