Re: Electric and Hybrid Cars



I've idly wondered what a 'self charging' hybrid is? Surely every hybrid ever made charges its batteries?
Just more adspeak?
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Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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Dave Plowman wrote:

some hybrids are capable of driving the wheels mechanically from the engine, ones with a range extender can only charge the battery from the engine and run the motor from the battery ...
I see that Geely (old London Taxis International) are now producing a van version of their electric taxi, which might do alright for them I suppose?
<https://www.levc.com/vn5-electric-lcv-van
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wrote:
<snip> >I see that Geely (old London Taxis International) are now producing a

A pretty big Amazon Prime electric van whispered past delivering round here the other day so people are using such things. ;-)
Cheers, T i m
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On Saturday, 25 July 2020 12:34:09 UTC+1, T i m wrote:

Nissan Leaf segues into the E-NV200 series vans and combis which can be ada pted as camper vans.
https://www.nissan.co.uk/range/electric-cars.html
When you see how many times the little red Royal Mail vans get stopped and started every day, and that both hybrids and electrics are particularly goo d in such usage situations, it seems very sad that every RM van appears to be diesel. (They might have some non-diesels somewhere, but I don't see any .)
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A delivery vehicle doing a similar mileage every day would seem ideal for battery only. Think milk floats. ;-)
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Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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our local postal sorting office is nearly 3 times as far away as the dairy depot used to be. Would they make it back?
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from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
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On Sat, 25 Jul 2020 14:45:33 +0100, charles wrote:

ideal

Or just take too long? The local sorting office is 20 miles/30 mins away in a van. Milk float at 5 mph = 8 times as long or 3 hours and that's before the round(s)...
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On Saturday, 25 July 2020 15:36:00 UTC+1, Dave Liquorice wrote:

Both charles and Dave have made pertinent points with which I agree.
I can also see that RM might well value the possibility of one vehicle bein g able to do a double-round for various reasons. A multi-hour recharge time makes that impossible. (Yes, I know there are some quick-charge to 80% opt ions. Also, some have problems doing more than one quick recharge.)
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Of course - with enough battery capacity. The point being if you know the sort of miles it's going to do each day and it's fairly consistent you can design for it.
London taxis seem to manage pretty well. And the numbers are increasing. Can't see a London cabbie paying out for something that gave him grief.
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Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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Dave Plowman wrote:

But they can top up with petrol "instantly" if they need to.

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Eh? There are some electric only ones - not hybrids.
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Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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wrote:

In theory
With a range of 80 miles (so the afore mentioned program said)
Cabbies will have to schedule several breaks into the day to top up
tim
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tim... wrote:

Depends on whether your taxi regulations allow any old car to be selected for service.
https://electrek.co/2019/10/29/tesla-model-3-first-electric-car-approved-nyc-yellow-cab/
Around here, I doubt a taxi driver would bother with a BEV. They really seem to like "Toyota Prius" :-) Why exactly, who knows. Maybe it's just less engine idling that they like. Like sitting at a taxi stand and listening for calls.
Paul
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Paul wrote:

As a private hire vehicle yes, but as a hackney carriage no.
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That depends on the local authority. I think London is the only place to insist on special vehicles.
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from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
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On Monday, 27 July 2020 10:00:19 UTC+1, charles wrote:

"In Glasgow, all licensed taxis are black Hackney vehicles."
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wrote:

I think that (accurate) delineation happens more in / around London than anywhere in else in the UK and probably around the world (and not just because they are 'Hackney Carriages' etc). ;-)
eg, Apart from the Tuc Tuc, I think the London 'Taxi' (as opposed to a 'minicab' in London) being mostly the traditional Black Cab is one of the few examples of using a highly specialised vehicle for that role.
Looking down the Wiki list it seem one of the most commonly used brands is Toyota, but they all seem to use std production cars.
I wonder if the reason the Prius was picked up quickly by our Minicabbers was because of how we charge (congestion / emissions etc) in London? I think other congested cities only allow drivers in on alternate days etc (so no cost savings for running an EV / Hybrid, although there may be some of that as well)?
Cheers, T i m
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A Prius is much more fuel efficient in stop/go traffic, which is where a lot of minicabs spend their time. Taxis spend a lot of money on fuel, so they make a lot of sense for city driving. Also, the Toyota hybrid transmission is pretty bomb-proof so no clutches, no DPFs, no cambelts, much less engine wear. They go for 200-400K miles with relatively modest servicing.
Theo
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On 27 Jul 2020 12:13:45 +0100 (BST), Theo

Electric motor pullaway, regen braking? (Didn't the Mk1 Prius have about a 3 mile range on electric only)?

Agreed.

Cool. And that seems to resonate worldwide (so over many driving conditions, Toyotas in general, not the Prius particularly).

I guess there would be a sweet spot for battery size / capacity and return on investment for that sort of role.
eg, It might still take a while for battery capacity to catch up with non-stop IC fuel range and in long trip scenarios, hybrids probably don't offer much in the way of savings (if any, if you amortise the initial cost compared with a straight IC car)?
For urban stop start, (and ignoring kerbside emissions for a sec) you only need as big a battery as required to pull away on electric and recover as much energy as possible (for the same urban use) without having any bigger battery than necessary?
I guess that's why the Mk1 Prius had such a small electric only range (it was never really designed for that use)?
Cheers, T i m
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Yes, although pullaway is fairly taxing. Early Priuses didn't have enough motor power to do a decent electric pullaway up to 30mph so would start the engine when reaching about 20mph if you weren't extremely gentle on the accelerator. They've improved that since the Mk3 (2010). Pure electric is mostly used on low speed cruise (<30mph) where it can stop the engine and doesn't need much effort to maintain speed.
In stop/start you're creeping a lot so you only get to a few mph before you need to brake - that can be all electric. And reversing is all electric too (no need for reverse on the gearbox which simplifies things), and aircon is electric too (makes a big difference to efficiency if you run aircon when stationary - no need for continuous engine running).

It depends, but the other things it simplifies can make it worthwhile, both in terms of reduced component costs (no DPF etc) and reduced maintenance. Especially if you're going automatic so need an auto gearbox anyway.

Indeed. You can force it into EV mode but it's less efficient than using the battery in the parts of the cycle where it's most useful It isn't really an electric car, although the early ones got attention from aftermarket PHEV conversions (one of which I happen to have in my shed...)
The system has been around for 23 years now. Having driven 2006 and 2016 Toyota hybrids, things improved quite a lot in that time.
Theo
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