Electric cars a step nearer mainstream?

[dennis]

Mine does.

[Adrian]

"Mary Fisher" gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying:

Ah, killfiling because of wude words.

Are you sure your surname isn't really "Whitehouse"?

[Adrian]

The Natural Philosopher gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying:

Umm, no.

OK, fine. So the estimate of half a ton given earlier in the thread for a 50kWh battery pack was high.

Congratulations, you've just added 200kg to the total kerbweight of that

2cv, since the current powertrain weighs probably about 80kg max.

One of us, anyway.

[Doctor Drivel]

[Doctor Drivel]

It is brilliant - no noise or smoke and other nasties.

[The Luggage]

...

While the engine is running at full revs under no load. Exactly the situation an engine finds itelf in most of the time. Not.

The MOT diesel particulates test is a joke. Until last year, I owned a

1993 vintage diesel Fiesta. It threw out plently of smoke under 'hard' acceleration, but it passed the emissions test with flying colours, at about 1/10 the permitted limit.

TL

[Doctor Drivel]

Petrol is better. It should be petrol

[Mary Fisher]

Perhaps you're the exception which proves the rule :-)

[Mary Fisher]

But they don't stay new.

[Doctor Drivel]

The brake pedal does activate it.

Yep, where they shine. Many does on this thread think all cars only go on motorways, so we should forget trying to advance matters and go back to the

1950s.

[Roger]

The message from The Natural Philosopher contains these words:

That't a very big if.

[Roger]

The message from The Natural Philosopher contains these words:

Diesels have improved in recent years but overall with the best technology in the world they are unlikely to be more than 25% more fuel efficient than their petrol counterparts.

[Roger]

The message from The Natural Philosopher contains these words:

It won't save more than about 25% at best.

Certainly significant in terms of fuel consumption even though your 30% is OTT but your "nearly that on CO2" is way out.

I had in mind a figure of 20% difference for the carbon content. I cannot now find the source of that figure and an authoritative Merkin source would have it that a (US) gallon of petrol produces 19.4 lbs of CO2 with the figure for diesel 22.2. That difference is also certainly significant and by my reckoning would reduce the possible maximum difference from 25% to 14%.

[PaulB]

Small enough to pass straight through the nose and into the lungs with no interference along with way, well that's encouraging then. If you think a diesel vehicle is clean it's worth watching the back end as it pulls away from the lights.

Paul

[Rod]

Seems to me that I more often find myself following a really stinky diesel vehicle these days than ever before. Probably because where DERVs used to be almost exclusively vans, lorries and buses there are now lots of cars.

[magwitch]

Mine doesn't.

[The Natural Philosopher]

with a minimal torsion box, of which te major part would probably be integrated with the battery carrier cell.

Thats for the suspension anyway. you only neeed connect the cell to the whhels..thats the only bit with any mass apart from the passengers.

As far as the passenger cell goes, I'd probbly take a leaf out of racing practice, and make a roll /side impact cage and some crumple zones, and encase that with foam plastic and moulded ppalstic panels, for lightness.

But there are plenty of ways to skin that cat.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Indeed. Its hard to see how a half ton of car can be achieved with just

80kg of power train,. I mean in a 2cV what else is there? theres minimal body weight, Ok there are a few heavies like cast iron brake drums, but you can throw those away.

So either its a lot less thgan half a ton, or you have left a lot out of the power train that is actually in it.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Adrian wrote:

I am not talking about a Pious. Its a total abortion. I am talking a bout a proper BEV that doesn't have to carry a silly engine, a generator, and a complex drive system to couple the lot to an electric motor, and a pig heavy nickel battery that self discharges in a month or two, shoehorned into conventional and extremely heavy and poorly performing conventional 'bent tin' car

That may actually be not such a bad way to go.But I dont think it will pan out that way.

Its neither actually.

standard designs exist than can be constructed pretty quickly. Most of te power station is tsandard stugg downstream of the steam boiler. Its only upstream that its 'nuclear'. The CANDU - the French PWR. I think there is a German design as well. The major lag these days is in planning.

Very little of it requires specialised knowledge, just the reactor itself, and the way teh radioactive materials are handled. The latter is common practice in other industries that use radioactive stuff. So really its only the reactor and primary heat exchangers that are 'unusual'.

No they are scrapped because they aren't fashionable and its cheaper to plonk a deposit on a new one than pay someone to fix them. There's a lot MORE to fix IN them. There must be 50-60 bearings alone in the average power train. That becomes probably no more than 8 in an electric. There are a plethora of tubes and pipes carrying liquids everywhere. Ther would be - apart from the screenwasher and possibly brakes and power steering, no liquids. There are already TWO fairly massive electric motors in a car - the starter and the alternator. They are relatively reliable compared with the rest. There are about 15 sensors in the average car, four or more spark plugs or injectors,. None of THAT is needed. No oil filters, no oil pump. No water pump. No starter motor. No alternator. No distributor. No camshaft, valves, cambelt. No turbo charger No air filter.No catalytic exhaust,with its mounting rubbers and corrosion problems. Possibly no hydraulics either. Just a big pack and a fan, 4 electric motors and a lot of electronics. Probably no separate gauges either. Just an LCD screen with everything on it. Yea even up to rearward facing CCTV for parking. Probably no gear lever either. Just a switch for forwards, backwards, and stop. Maybe lo and Hi. Instead of an engine management computer, you have a battery management computer - or suite of them probably - integrated with the pack. And a drive computer coupled to the pedals and the motor control pack.

When you look at it all that a current car has that a BEV needs are suspension and steering and wheels. The rest apart from passnenger toys, is simply thrown away.

We meed an Issigonis to re-desing the whole car from the ground up basically, but it will work all right.

Ther have not been any *realistic* BEVs produced to date in more than tens of units. The T-zero is about the only one thats in any sort of production and that is restricted to California, as they are the only people who can fix it if the somewhat new technology breaks. Ther IS no history - yet - to guide us.

exactly. Low volume, wrong battery technology, and too heavy anyway to be worth having. Thats the HISTORY of electric cars. Its not the future.

[The Natural Philosopher]

its actually not an 'if' its a 'when'.

Fuel prices wont get lower, so other ways to generate will become cost effective. Period. In fact they already are. Even *windmills* at current prices are nearing break even, with fuel..