===============================================================================Think it's bad now? Wait until they figure out that it is caused by our
orbit. There will be people saying that we need to build rockets to push the
earth back into a comfortable orbit.
The government can't take on that task in the foreseeable future. Even
the elected cannot fathom adding 3 more zero's to the word trillion.
AFAIAC, global warming is already a fact. At the very least I cannot
escape logic that with all we do (have done), there ought to be global
warming. The reason to be alarmist is that the global changes appear to
be going on rather rapid for "regular" climate change, and so it is much
more difficult for flora and fauna, including agriculture etc, to adjust.
Add to that the thought that some of the reasons for speeding up global
warming may be a feed-back (or feed-forward) mechanism by which it goes
faster and faster, like a rock rolling down a mountain, and it becomes
real scary. Everything humanity does depends on agriculture, and if that
needs to all move to higher latitudes, ...
Not according to the A holes who say it's not happening.
But those of us with brains recognize that the past few years the
swings have been out of whack. Records everywhere. Record high temps in
the winters, record snow falls, record low temps.
The Deleware river has had 3 100 year floods in just a couple of years.
Those people who say its not global warming are the same people that say
tobacco doesn't cause cancer. And fracking is harmless. And so on..
Like our congress critters who say SS will be there for us.
The head up their ass guys and gals.
On 6/30/2012 10:18 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
Expect that, it's been hotter.... much hotter. Hint: Greenland... it
was green. :-)
And tell me this, why is it ok for man-caused GW alarmists to use
weather to support their claims but when when GW opponents use it, the
alarmists smugly chastise us for confusing climate with weather?
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
1. Those caught up in the hype are only interested in the here and now,
using past data and trends is way too complicated to form a logical
reality. They want to use the information from those that are making
money off of the hype.
2. Those caught up in the hype believe that cleaning up the air and
environment will lessen the worlds annual Summer season. Like #1 above
they don't like to admit that this so called "change" has happened on
their watch. Prior to cleaning up the environment and pollution there
was no "change".
Tobacco causes cancer? Science has YET to define the mechanism. All that the
health folks can say is that there is a very, very strong correlation. But
science also holds that correlation is not causation.*
Fracking is harmless? Again, geologists and others have not yet shown
whether fracking is or is not harmless.
SS will be there for us? We have no way of knowing for sure whether SS will
be there, and we cannot know until the time arrives.
Your examples are based on speculation, guesses, perhaps a tendency, but not
on reproducible experiments. Just like global warming, er... "climate
* There is strong "evidence" (if you hold that correlation implies
causation) that pickles are hazardous! Virtually everyone who ate at least
one pickle before 1900 is, today, either dead or has white hair and no
Nope. If tobacco was the cause then everybody who smoked would get
cancer. It's not a cause, it's a predisposing factor. George Burns was
seldom seen without a cigar and lived to be over a hundred. If "smoking
causes cancer" he would certainly have gotten cancer. There are many
other examples of people who smoke heavily and live to ripe old ages and
never get cancer.
Prove that it was caused by fracking. Pennsylvania had high methane
levels in the water long before fracking. Heck, prove that the various
videos that are being shown are even tap water. For all you know there
could be a gasoline tank on the other side of the wall.
One could only hope that it happens to you, that a gas company puts a
well near your home, and you find out first hand.
That would be the only way you'd believe.
I'm done with this thread. I guess I started it, but some of you have
really way out thinking, that it's all fabrication everywhere. You
believe the companies first where I don't trust the companies.
I guess you didn't watch any of the investigative reporting on some of
these fracking issues. Yea sure there are gas tanks attached to peoples
water. It's called the ground water and fracking.
Colorado was the study location. And the problem was clearly documented,
including how far the problem had spread. Previous water tests were
looked at, and of course the drilling companies said it must be
Colorado has seperate mineral rights from land rights. So the people
have no control. And wherever they are drilling the water gets polluted
and contaminated. And eventually the problem spreads out much farther.
But you're right, and I'm wrong.
I can't prove anything to any of you. So I'm done with these arguments.
I only hope you learn firsthand. Then you'll be enlightened.
Well, you are most definitely suspect in your condemning an entire
industry (an industry which has brought you the building blocks of most
of the modern conveniences of life since the late 1800's) based on your
above blanket belief/sentiment.
Just limiting my discussion to fracking. By itself, the process should
be just fine. It's the unintended parts that are the problem. It is
without doubt that this type of mining can generate small earthquakes.
Thus it is entirely possible that at some point a path is generated by
which the gas that is the aim of the drilling also gets into groundwater
or aquifers rather far above the intended mining area. On top of that,
there is the pollution generated by the waste water and waste chemicals
that are now most often just dumped in situ or trucked away and dumped
in the nearest legal area. All legal pollution that isn't helping
anyone. Add to that probems with insufficient sealing of the drill
holes, and the disturbances of the neighbors.
I'm all in favor of getting the gas, but there needs to be far more
control over the consequences. It may indeed be proven that the water
coming from the faucet isn't flammable from the gas the drillers went
for, but ther is gas there now, where it wasn't before. Etc, etc.
I'm not a geologist, but I was raised by one (who was intent on teaching
me continually about the exploration end of the business from day one),
grew up in the oil and gas "bidness", and have hired a few in a past
life. I agree about the potential for frac'ing, particularly in some
formations, causing problems.
I also think that corporate misbehavior, particularly of the criminal
kind, like yesterday's announced GlaxoSmithKline settlement, should be
punished by prison time for those personnel in the corporate hierarchy
who both authorized it and/or looked the other way.
I spent two tours in the Army as the Commanding Officer of a military
unit, one in a combat zone. In each case it was _I_ who was ultimately
responsible for everything that happened in that command during my tenure.
Had there been criminal activity of which I had even a suspicion, there
is NO doubt that I would have been held accountable and paid the price
in military prison.
I expect our congress, and legal system, to hold corporate involvement
in criminal activity, regardless of the industry, to that same standard
... unfortunately the lobbyist, lawyers and legal system work to insure
that will never be so.
Another cause for disillusionment, as age and somewhat more wisdom set
I spent some vacation time on the same trip as a member of the unit that
investigated the Massey mine disaster
I asked point blank whether the higher ups in the mining company were
responsible. And he said Oh yes, they were, but it is all about
plausible deniability, they are too insulated by lawyers etc. Now the
company that bought Massey did get saddled with much more liability than
they had counted on ...
And yes, I think that higher ups in companies like SKF, Barclays, JP
Morgan, &tc, &tc should spent some time in the klink.
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