OT: How the electric car revolution could backfire

No, that was always a pile of rubbish, and not art. Any more than that empty room at Tate Modern with just some lights going on and off from time to time is art.

It's all Fart - short for faux art.

I don't really care. If people want to put themselves forward as 'artists', and join a little clique of like-minded luvvies, and other people with more money than sense want to pay large sums for the privilege of storing the products of those self-appointed 'artists' in warehouses that risk catching fire, that's their problem, not mine.

Until you find some exhibition has been paid for by your council so that some "Artists" who satisfies some diversity quota can show of there work. And some get grants from the arts council which handles a lot of public funds, same with putting on plays for minority interest groups using minority interest performers of only interest to the minorities from which the performers come from.

G.Harman

You are trying to obfuscate technology with misplaced morality. Of course we can keep taking. Why not? We are the masters of the planet.

Nothing that matters. And I want the same for my grandchildren.

Yes, the vast majority of people who appreciate the advances in science and technology and don't want to be made to slide back into the days when life was hard.

Emotional illogical hogwash.

Are you saying that's a reason we should do the same? You sound like you wear a hair shirt and flagellate yourself frequently.

Well that's what you are threatening us with.

... but are you happy to have a coal fired power station in

Absolutely. Better still a nuclear one.

Sorry, gotta go. Just got a phone call from the daughter. Her husband's had some sort of accident at work. Luckily I can climb into my car, fill the tank in a few minutes, and drive to the hospital right now.

Bill

ACTUALLY I confess to being amused by Tracy Emins bed. Never decided whether it was art or not.

I knew the Gormley quite well at college. He was a damned fine painter of 'tradiotionbal' style images, and had a really impish sense of humour.

I always think his 'art' is a joke played on the establishment.

My RA uncle recalled to me sadly in the 70's 'you dont make money in Art unless you are in the 'in' crowd and are a pooftah or an alcoholic'

Yerrss.

My actor friend says that the only thing that gets grants is 'edgy' avante garde politically correct talentless rubbish.

King Lear as transgender black Afro Carribean...etc...etc...

I'm not.

Because we will eventually kill / consume ourselves out of existence?

You may think we are. At best we could be guardians of it but we (the so called civilised nations) haven't been.

All I'm hearing there is 'want'? You may want it but unless we have another war or major disaster that reduces our numbers considerably we are going to run out of water, let alone food so you (and they) won't get it (or anything much).

Again, it's just what people 'don't want', not what they may get, like it or not.

Really? So you don't believe any of the independent air quality studies that are being run in cities all round the world right now and you can't see the choking smogs that regularly cover many cities

Of course not, it's just that I think some people need a reality check and open their eyes to what else is going on in the world around them. Even if they were to open their eyes, some (without sufficient empathy) will just carry on taking and consuming.

And you would be wrong on that as well then. ;-)

Sorry, do you think I'm in a position of power in the government or something? Have you seen me advocating 'renewable energy' somewhere?

That's good then. Could you write to your local Council and offer that to them please.

Agreed ... again, preferably in *your* back garden though. ;-)

Assuming that's not you being sarcastic, sorry to hear that.

What, you are a surgeon, drive an Ambulance or are a Paramedic? No minicabs, busses or trains in your area?

All my point was that there is a scale of consumption that in some cases might be considered obscene by 'most people'. As a minor example of that, most of us would like a heater in a car but to try to manage the temperature differently on different sides of the inside of a car ... really?

Only one of our cars has aircon and it's the basic on/off type and whilst it does make the hottest days more comfortable, it comes at a cost (fuel, maintenance, replacement parts etc) and so we only turn it on in extreme conditions. We somehow managed to do without it for the previous 35 years and I'd happily go without it again if I could afford to own, drive and run a cleaner car. eg. I would offset my own comfort for benefit of others (and myself of course) as that's the sort of thing a 'good citizen should do. However, because of the low miles we drive each year, it would have to be a very clean car (EV?) to make any real (world) difference.

I'm not suggesting you don't have an IC car ... I'm suggesting that 'most people' could get away without an IC car (ignoring initial cost / charging facilities at home for a moment) because they *never* drive further than the range of an average EV.

If you live anywhere close to any of the big cities you will see cars parked in the road and on the front of peoples homes that rarely move, and if they do they only go to the shops or visit a friend or family member locally.

Now, if all those people had EV's, again it probably wouldn't make much difference to the pollution levels so it's those who drive in and around the big cities *regularly* that we need to address. 'We' being all those who also find ourselves in such places and want to live a bit longer.

Cheers, T i m

I think you both sum it up (and the Mr Streater 'luvvie' with his Fine Arts Degree (he couldn't get a course on Photography or Media Studies back then)) in that much of it is BS.

Like the painting they hung and asked art critics to comment on ... 'the emotion in the brushstrokes, the feelings, the anguish in the artists mind ... ' ... well, any of that could have been true, however it was painted by an elephant. ;-)

Ask anyone off the street to look at a painting and in most case they will be impressed by how close it looks to a photograph, if it contains a subject that appeals to them (cats, dogs, horses, fishing, tennis playing girls bum) or is funny / wacky / macabre / whatever ... or if they have tried to paint something themselves.

Or it's painted by someone who has a disability, or they have used just the end of a match or a stick of rhubarb to paint with. ;-)

Like this ... (we have always like whippets and greyhounds ..)

The BS bit comes in when we are *told* this is 'good art' because someone paid more than £5 for it.

We only have one picture up here (a print) and it's of a ship that was sailed by one of my Dads friends (US Coastguard) and we put it up because we were given it. I can't say I've ever even looked at it and it's probably been there 30+ years! ;-)

Cheers, T i m

Usually such things are only of interest to middle class artiy intellectuals - the minority from which they come usually have better things to do.

In article , tim... writes

So he neighbours don't realise they are on benefits.

In article , "Dave Plowman (News)" writes

Modern caravans can us 3kw+ with heater and water heater.

None use 13 amp plugs, The standard is 16 amp blue round pin sockets.

ASDAs probably have s substantial power supply and probably only offer 2 or 3 charging points. What happens when everyone expects a charging point on every car park space.

Let's not forget hybrids will not be banned in 2040. It will take a quantum leap in battery technology to make electric traction universal.

Why would they?

Because if at some point in the future most people buy simple electric cars (ie not hybrid petrol-electric or diesel-electric) they will want places where they can recharge during any time that they are parked. Supermarkets, public car parks and private office car parks are all places where people may stop long enough that it's worth trying to take on a bit of extra charge.

Yes as you say *may* want to. So why do all spaces need chargers? What about the ones that may not want a charge because they are at 97% anyway.

Maybe the chargers won't be free by 2040 like most are now so less people will want to pay.

If that's right, then no worries; just buy whatever fossil fuelled engine you like, with the smallest battery and motor available that make it count as a hybrid ...

McLaren P1?