Do I really need 200 A main service?

I am building an addition to my house and thought of upgrading my 150 A service and panel to 200 A. However after weighing the cost (upward of $1500 in my area) and benefit I started having second thoughts. My

150 A service and panel are relatively new, 8 years old.

The house after addition is completed will be around 3500 sf plus finished basement.

I have gas oven, gas furnace, gas water heater and gas dryer in my house. I have a workshop with 50 A sub panel, I will have second central A/C installed, the sauna with heater and potentially steam shower. Both central A/C use 40 A breakers @ 220V (the second , sauna heater will draw max 25A @ 220 V and the steam generator will draw 35 A @ 220 V. Besides this I do not have anything special from electric load perspective.

Is 150 A service and panel enough to service my load or I really need

200 A upgrade?
Reply to
ls02
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You could get by...most likely. But I doubt anyone would recommend it!

Reply to
Bob Villa

First, I'd say that the existing 150 amp service you have, was a mistake. There is such an insignificant price difference between a 150 and 200 amp service, there shouldn't even be a 150 amp. Having said that, both my dad and I have 150 amp services at our houses, and we're both licensed electrical contractors. NO, we didn't install them, they came with our houses. However, in both our situations, the 150 amp is perfectly adequate for the size of the houses and our load demands. Eventually, I will replace mine out of sheer embarrassment.

In your situation, the 150 is probably adequate as well. Those heavy loads, the A\C and steam generators, and sauna are cycling on and off, and except for the A\C are used for only short periods of time. There certainly is no reason to go for the 200 at this time. I would connect all the new stuff to the existing service, and only replace it if you find the need.

Reply to
RBM

Thank you for your response. When I bought the house I didn't have enough experience and knowledge to push for 200 A upgrade. My 60+ year old house originally had 100 A service so I upgraded to 150 A following the HVAC installer advice.

The problem is that upgrading main service is the only part of wiring I cannot do myself. This makes me hire an electrician and they want close to $1000 to upgrade it just for labor plus it costs me around $500 for all materials. If I could upgrade service myself I would definitely do it. I replaced and upgraded all other wiring in my house myself.

Reply to
ls02

Thank you for your response. When I bought the house I didn't have enough experience and knowledge to push for 200 A upgrade. My 60+ year old house originally had 100 A service so I upgraded to 150 A following the HVAC installer advice.

The problem is that upgrading main service is the only part of wiring I cannot do myself. This makes me hire an electrician and they want close to $1000 to upgrade it just for labor plus it costs me around $500 for all materials. If I could upgrade service myself I would definitely do it. I replaced and upgraded all other wiring in my house myself.

In my area of downstate NY, 200 amp services are going for $2000-$2500. It's all about the bureaucracy

Reply to
RBM

Wow, that's pretty funny. Of all the reasons one might find to upgrade an electric service, "electric vehicles are on the way", is certainly not one I would have thought of. I suppose with the new "Volt" coming out with it's revolutionary 40 miles (best case scenario) on a charge, people will be just tripping over each other to buy one. We electricians will be backlogged for the next ten years trying to upgrade everyone's service to accommodate these technological wonders.

Reply to
RBM

Reply to
Michael B

What is a homeowners permit?

Reply to
RBM

My house has a 60 Amp service, I guess electricians thought that way back in the 50's too.

Reply to
BQ340

What a "short sighted" statement...you must still have a V-8 in your machine?!

Reply to
Bob Villa

"RBM" wrote

Funny today, maybe no so ten years from now. I read that California is installing thousands of charging stations now. That is keeping some electricians busy.

I'd put one in if I was buying a Tesla. You won't catch me driving a Volt even though the payback is a mere 18 years or so.

Reply to
Ed Pawlowski

In my humble experience, a 200amp panel has way more capacity than you will ever use. Save the money.

Reply to
Lawrence

I think you hit the nail on the head. California is just putting more nails in their financial coffin, but for those of us living in the real world, the volt is a POS, and we can't afford the Tesla. I don't think I'll have to worry about installing piles of electric car outlets for a while yet

>
Reply to
RBM

What a "short sighted" statement...you must still have a V-8 in your machine?!

Relatively speaking, the cork in a wine bottle has seen more improvement in the last 100 years, then the electric car. No, I don't think we'll all be running out and buying them anytime soon. And if I had a need for a V-8, I would have a V-8

Reply to
RBM

To me, the current supply sounds more than adequate. Details matter, though.

It makes a huge difference how many people live in the house. Is it

3000 square feet and 2 people, or 3000 square feet and 20 people? Do you expect to run the A/C at full blast and the sauna at the same time? Look at your monthly electric bills for usage, then consider what units are consuming the electricity, and on what schedule. Do you have consistent periods of peak demand? Are those peaks big or small? In other words, is your usage spread over the day or bursty?

Una

Reply to
Una

It would seem that if and when electric cars become feasible and cost effective for many people that you could upgrade your electric service at that time. I don't see why anyone would be laying out money today to go from a 150A service to 200A service on the theory that electric cars are going to become mainstream. No one knows exactly how the future of car technology is going to play out. That Chevy Volt would have to sell for under $20K to be in line with similar compact cars. Then you still have the 40 mile electric range, but with the backup gas engine it could be suitable for commutes to the train or bus, short hops around town, etc.

For the OP, it would seem the simplest thing to do would be to try the existing service with the addition and see if it works out OK. If the main breaker starts tripping, then he knows he needs a larger service.

Reply to
trader4

well electric cars are coming and at home resale time lack of capacity could discourage buyers. its not just the volt or the telsa, its the nissan leaf and others.theres a plug in version of the prius coming too.

electricity is more green than other energy sources, since its made in bulk and that makes scrubbing its exhaust easier. let alone solar panels and windmills..........

if your room addition needs a sub panel i would upgrade to 200 amps now, the cost of electrical upgrade is a tiny part of a big home addition......

Reply to
hallerb

It would seem that if and when electric cars become feasible and cost effective for many people that you could upgrade your electric service at that time. I don't see why anyone would be laying out money today to go from a 150A service to 200A service on the theory that electric cars are going to become mainstream. No one knows exactly how the future of car technology is going to play out. That Chevy Volt would have to sell for under $20K to be in line with similar compact cars. Then you still have the 40 mile electric range, but with the backup gas engine it could be suitable for commutes to the train or bus, short hops around town, etc.

For the OP, it would seem the simplest thing to do would be to try the existing service with the addition and see if it works out OK. If the main breaker starts tripping, then he knows he needs a larger service.

I agree. The only thing that's wrong with the electric car, is the only thing that has always been wrong with it. The Battery. With all the devices using batteries today, I don't think some new, totally revolutionary battery technology is just going to sneak up on us. And if it did, I, and everyone else would be happy as clams... and then we wouldn't have enough electricity generation to feed them.

Reply to
RBM

I said the same thing about cell phones and hybrids. Only got a cell phone a few years ago, when they got cheap to buy and use. Hybrids are about 3% of new cars sales now. The same buyers will want the plug-in models. I expect that will grow as they get cheaper to buy, especially plug-in hybrids like the Volt. Ford will also be a plug-in hybrid player next year, and Toyota is going to start producing a plug-in Prius. Though I'll probably be dead before they get in my car price range, plug-ins will be a bigger chunk of the car market as time goes by. There are already gov tax credits around for charging stations.

With free gov money people go all out to get it. Just like the fat-ass jokers I used to work with would go to bars to wolf down free appetizers. They knew all the "free food" schedules. Never understood eating lousy food just because it was free. Maybe I'm anti-social? Nah, just know good food from junk.

Though some people pooh-pooh the idea of the 40 mile electric range of the Volt, I think GM has a winner with the concept - if it's not a dog otherwise. If as advertised, the daily 40 miles would serve 95% of our driving needs just plugging into 110v. And the other 5% would have the IC engine running. That's 100%. Our commute is 24 miles round trip daily. It could be a winner with twice the commute. There are millions of folks with the same car needs as us.

Only thing that will hamper Volt sales is continued high price or if it's a maintenance hog. Time will tell.

--Vic

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Reply to
Vic Smith

I doubt you really compute much more than 120-130a, based on what you posted. The 3500 sq/ft plus the laundry and kitchen @35% is 21.8a Your sauna/steam is 60 I bet the A/C units are about 20a or less (use the full load on the condenser, not the breaker size) The issue is load diversity. If you really think you will be using the A/C, the sauna and running all the machines in your shop at the same time, you may have trouble. My thinking is if it is hot enough to run the A/C, just go sit in your car for a few minutes with the windows rolled up. That will be plenty of sauna ... for free.

Reply to
gfretwell

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