I am re-wiring a friends basement and he has a Westinghouse 150A panel
with 30 breakers. I ran out of terminals on the ground/neutral bars,
even after doubling up on some ground wires of new circuits I ran. So
I purchased a grounding buss bar from Home Depot. My question is that
the existing mounting holes on this buss bar do not line up with the
pre-drilled holes in the panel, so I need to make at least one new
one. Since the panel is directly behind plywood, is it possible to
just use a large self-tapping screw and screw through the bussbar,
through the panel, and through the pywood? The other mounting hole I
would use the threaded screw. Also I assume I need to use at least a
#6 wire to link the new buss bar with the existing buss bar.
That would take car of the basement for now, but looking down the road
if other circuits needed to be added for another reno, is it possible
to add a sub-panel to the main panel? I thought about changing out the
panel to a 200 amp, but I don't think it is necessary, this is a house
that uses and gas stove/dryer/water heater. Plus the fact the outside
meter pan would need to be changed. The existing panel is maybe 20-25
years old, I don't know why they put in 150A instead of 200A.
The proper way to do it is to use a ground bar that was tested for use
in the panel and will fit the hole pattern. That ground bar is
identified on the label for the panel.
(Only ground wires can be attached to the new ground bar.)
Maybe because there is a gas stove/dryer/water heater.
I added a bar and put both grounds and neutrals, it passed middle
group inspection and I too used a screw on one end into the plywood...
on the panel itself when home resale time comes you will regret having
a sub panel and pieced together main service.
the 150 amp panel may be connected to a 200 amp meter can and service
Why would that be? As long as it's done to code, nothing
I know of that's wrong with a subpanel. And the house has
gas for dryer, stove, HW, so 150 amps doesn't seem low.
However, if the current panel requires adding bus bars, maybe
it's time to just add the new subpanel now.
Could be and worth checking. But unless the house really
needs 200, it still seems easier adding a subpanel instead of
ripping out the whole existing one.
home buyers look at sub panels as a quick patch fix, and may try to
demand the cost of a upgrade off the sales price.
in any case it just adds more hassle at sale time:( you will regret
Like replacng just some shingles, buyer will demand a new roof....
The cost difference between a sub panel and a main panel isnt a lot,
and the main is already 25 years old, thats what the OP said
On Mar 25, 7:25 pm, email@example.com wrote:
In the typical contract, it would have to be an inspection
report issue. If the inspector doesn't raise an issue with
it, the buyer can't just say I want a new panel instead of
the sub-panel that is there. The contract says they've
agreed to buy the house, subject to any items that are
identified by the home inspector.
But the other problem is if they bring anything up like
that, just telling them no, doesn't
necessarily work either. If you need to sell the house,
and you have a reasonable offer, you don't want to lose
the sale in this market over $1000. Which is why some
buyers can try to use anything to bitch for a price
reduction. So Bob has a point, but I agree most buyers
won't even know what a sub-panel is.
Most people are getting home inspectors, and with a 25 year old panel
with a sub panel the inspector
could ask lots of nosey questions. The entire service is old and
obsolete, the panel maker is no longer in the panel business, 150 amp
main with all these extra breakers is bad idea, etc etc etc,
all the things you dont want when selling a home
On 3/25/2013 8:39 PM, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
Not really true. When selling my house, they signed the contract,
pending inspection and later the buyers demanded everything. I
questioned what the contract is for ... I have to abide by it, why not
the buyers? Yes, I did fix the stuff in the inspection. And, actually,
some stuff I didn't fix just explaining that it wasn't a problem and
they accepted it. But the buyers wanted a new house, i.e. everything
new. They "demanded" a new furnace. The existing one was still partly
under original warranty. I gave a little by buying them an extra year
of home buyer's insurance. Then they demanded that all the brand new
carpeting be clean. I just said NO! Ultimately, the carpeting was
actually cleaned and payed for by my real estate agent and (believe it
or not) my attorney ... just to get these "buyers from hell" off our
Well, you're right. The buyer can "try" to demand anything
at anytime, for any reason. What I meant was with the
typical real estate contract, unless their demand is for
something that is flagged in the inspection report, or
something else that is very unique and just discovere, they
are not legally in the right and would almost certainly
lose if the case went to court. Let's say for example,
that inspection report says nothing about the carpet
or interior paint being deficient. With the typical contract,
a buyer that now demands new carpet and a paint job
doesn't have a leg to stand on. Sure, as I
said, it may not be worth it to lose the sale over $1000.
But on the other hand, the seller has to decide when
they've had enough and for your lawyer to tell them
if they don't perform to the contract, you're going to sue
them and keep their deposit tied up in escrow.
I was selling a condo once. I had a buyer sign a contract
and apply for a 5% down mortgage. I asked them several
times if they were sure they could get a mortgage and
they said sure, no problem. After about a month, the
buyer called and told me they were approved. They
sent a letter indicating that to my attorney. Just before
the closing, the buyer calls me up and says there is a
problem, the bank withdrew the mortgage committment.
After some pertinent questioning, he fesses up that it
was because he has $50K in outstanding child support.
I asked, "Didn't they know that upfront? He says yes, they
did." He wants his deposit back. I said, fine, just send my
attorney a copy of the mortgage application that shows
you listed the child support on it and I'll return the deposit.
Needless to say, no such letter was forthcoming. His
lawyer did send me a letter saying that if we didn't give
the deposit back in a week, they were going to sue me.
I called up my attorney and told him to right the following
Dear Mr XYZX attorney:
I am in receipt of your letter indicating that you want to sue us.
I usually advise my clients to avoid litigation, but in some
circumstances it's the only way to find out fully what went
In other words, go ahead, make my day. Let's go to court
so your client can tell the judge how he tried to commit mortgage
fraud. We never heard from them again.....
The ULTIMATE PURPOSE of a home sale is selling the HOME, not getting
endlessely tied up in litigation.
Both attorneys make money and likely prevent the sale till the
litigation is settled
For ME, its far easier to maintain a home in ready to sale condition
than patch fix to save a buck and have it come back to bite me at sale
home inspectors will flag a sub panel, hey the main is outdated, its
25 plus years old and someone added a sub panel as a patch
Are Parts for Westinghouse main panels still available? If not that
could be a deal breaker..
I think this thread strayed off course for a bit, but:
It appears Lowes and HD sell type "BR" breakers which are for
Westinghouse panels which do fit.
The busbar I purchased is Eaton, which states it is for type "BR"
panels. And the mounting holes do line up, and the screws thread into
the panel. I also bonded it to the existing bussbar with a #4 solid
copper. I was able to swing over a couple of grounds to the new
bussbar, which now opened up a few terminals for the neutrals on the
In any event, the next reno that takes place might be converting the
garage to living space. If that occurs, I might run a sub-panel into
the area to make thing easier.
What a bunch of nonsense. I just installed a sub panel in a house so I
could add a few circuits to the basement for the purpose of getting a
C/O for the basement, for the purpose of selling the house. On what
grounds do you think a home inspector would contest the certification
from a certified electrical inspector???
Here is a picture of it, so you can tell me what the violation is that
your house inspector would find:
It looks like one of the drywall screws is too close to the main panel
cover. I've already reported it so be prepared for some serious trouble.
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