I am helping my brother in law renovate his condo. He has an old FP
electric panel that I want to replace due to the problems they are
known to have. There is a 50A main in the meter room, and the feed to
the existing panel is #6 wire. The panel supports 2- 220V a/c's (on
top of pic), 2- 20A breakers, 2-15A breakers, and one open slot for a
spare.
https://picasaweb.google.com/mikerock92/FPPanel?feat=directlink
Can someone tell me what panel I would need or maybe point me to a
link of a panel that would work for this application? Maybe made by
Murray, Cutler hammer, or GE?
By the way, one of the A/C's I am converting to 110V because one of
the A/C units is actually 110V and its like new, but the previous
owner never converted the plug to 110V, he just used an extension cord
to an adjacent outlet.
Someone (dpb?) wrote years ago that there were Eaton-Cutler Hammer guts
that would fit in an existing FPE box. I don't know if they still exist
or anything about them.
* Unless you can relocate the cables or reframe the studs, you're gonna have
a problem. That panel was made before minimum wire bending requirements were
enacted, so any 8 circuit flush panel you'd get today will be wider.
Bottom line, you need an 8 circuit "flush" mount panel. I think Square D,
"QO" would be physically the smallest. After changing the one 240 volt
circuit to 120 volt, you will need 1 double pole breaker and 7 single pole
breakers, which will fill the panel, if you get full sized breakers. If you
have need of future circuits you can use duplex breakers or get a larger
panel
*The panels that I usually see now can be top or bottom feed so you should
have plenty of slack for your hot wires. Your neutral my be short, but you
can splice onto that. Many panels are made to fit between two studs with
16" centers. It looks as though your spacing is less. My first thought is
to notch the existing studs, but that may not be possible for you. I know
years ago some manufacturers made narrow panels that had extra space at the
top and bottom. Here is a link to Square D's catalog. Page 7 and 8 lists
the load centers and page 19 has the dimensions. It looks as though they
have a 100 amp 8/16 panel that's narrow (QO816L100F or S). They show a
picture of the inside on page 7. You would probably have to go to a supply
house that is a Square D distributor to get one. Be sure to get a separate
ground bar.
http://static.schneider-electric.us/docs/Electrical%20Distribution/Load%20Centers/0110PL9401.pdf
Thanks for the Square D link. Yeah, that panel would work. But I
should mention the stud to the left can be moved/relocated and one of
the studs is just a filler, so I can go a little wider.
I just came back from HD, and they had Siemans and Eaton CH 8/16
boxes. The Eaton CH is a bit smaller than the Seimans, at 11"W X 13"
high. Lowes has Square D, but I think the biggest they have is 6/12.
I'll definately loook into the Square D though at a supply house. The
existing FPE panel
In terms of seperate ground bar, the existing wiring in the condo is
BX w/o ground, and the feed to the panel is BX and no ground. Do I
still need it? I see "ground straps" that come with the new panels,
should those be installed?
In terms of quality, any of them better or worse? I know Square D has
been around for ages. What about the others?
Thanks for the Square D link. Yeah, that panel would work. But I
should mention the stud to the left can be moved/relocated and one of
the studs is just a filler, so I can go a little wider.
I just came back from HD, and they had Siemans and Eaton CH 8/16
boxes. The Eaton CH is a bit smaller than the Seimans, at 11"W X 13"
high. Lowes has Square D, but I think the biggest they have is 6/12.
I'll definately loook into the Square D though at a supply house. The
existing FPE panel
In terms of seperate ground bar, the existing wiring in the condo is
BX w/o ground, and the feed to the panel is BX and no ground. Do I
still need it? I see "ground straps" that come with the new panels,
should those be installed?
In terms of quality, any of them better or worse? I know Square D has
been around for ages. What about the others
** The steel cable is the ground for a BX cable. You do not use the ground
strap, as the ground, in this case being the steel of the cables as well as
the enclosure itself, must be isolated from the neutral bar. You don't need
to install a ground bar unless you plan to install some Romex cables or
other type of cable that used a ground wire. All of the mentioned panels are
fine. Just try to find one that best suits your needs
Ok, now heres another question. I am running some new BX.
I see HD has MC lite, which is lite metal clad with a ground.I believe
the outer metal clad is made out of aluminum. It does feel lighter.
And they sell the regular steel clad BX w/o ground. Both seem to run
about the same price for about 100ft roll.
Can I use the MC lite? Seems like you get both a metal clad and a
ground in one cable.
*MC seems to be replacing BX and MC lite is very nice to carry and pull
compared to steel. One of the local supply companies that I deal with only
stocks MC. You can use MC cable, however the armor may not be an approved
grounding conductor. So you would need to install the ground bar for that.
Also you need to use connectors that are approved for MC cable. Regular BX
connectors are not approved for MC although there are some that are approved
for both. You will also need to install anti-short bushings at each end.
Ok, so heres my next question. I saw ground buss bars at HD. How do
you mount these inside the boxes?
I don't see any holes in the panels that line up, it looks like I
need to drill 2 holes and install nuts and bolts.
Is there a method of doing this?
Ok, so heres my next question. I saw ground buss bars at HD. How do
you mount these inside the boxes?
I don't see any holes in the panels that line up, it looks like I
need to drill 2 holes and install nuts and bolts.
Is there a method of doing this?
**You can drill and tap or use bolts. Scrape the paint off first
Is a condo application with a seperate meter room........
Is the main really a main? or should the grounds be isolated from the
neutral like a sub panel is
The new main panel should be mounted to wood, and if thats the case
wood screws can attach the bus bar to the cabinet, screing thru to the
wood
Is a condo application with a seperate meter room........
Is the main really a main? or should the grounds be isolated from the
neutral like a sub panel is
The new main panel should be mounted to wood, and if thats the case
wood screws can attach the bus bar to the cabinet, screing thru to the
wood
** The new panel is a sub panel. It will probably be mounted to 2x4's on
each side. The grounding buss bar ABSOLUTELY CANNOT be mounted with wood
screws, screwed through the box.
You know Haller, even a broken clock is correct twice a day, I'm not so sure
bout you
.
Well I added a buss bar to a existing main, used wood screws to mount
it thru the bar into the plywood mount board.Ran copper line to
existing buss bar, so it was properly connected
It passed middle states inspection, in the process of a home sale/
the idiot home inspector wrote up the main because although it had the
inspection sticker the signature was no longer legible, the ink had
faded.you could still see it had been signed
Now how would anyone add a buss bar to a existing panel, unless you
were willing to disconnect everything, remove the box and use machine
screws and nuts...
Well I added a buss bar to a existing main, used wood screws to mount
it thru the bar into the plywood mount board.Ran copper line to
existing buss bar, so it was properly connected
It passed middle states inspection, in the process of a home sale/
the idiot home inspector wrote up the main because although it had the
inspection sticker the signature was no longer legible, the ink had
faded.you could still see it had been signed
Now how would anyone add a buss bar to a existing panel, unless you
were willing to disconnect everything, remove the box and use machine
screws and nuts...
** First of all, this is a new sub panel, which has no existing grounding
bar to connect to. There is only a neutral buss. You can install the bar by
drilling and taping. We do it all the time
Ok, so heres my next question. I saw ground buss bars at HD. How do
you mount these inside the boxes?
I don't see any holes in the panels that line up, it looks like I
need to drill 2 holes and install nuts and bolts.
Is there a method of doing this?
*Like RBM said, you may have to drill and tap some holes. Most panels come
with predrilled holes that just need tapping with an 8/32 tap. However
unless you get the ground bar specifically for your panel (There is usually
a part number on the inside label) you will have to drill out the ground bar
or drill a hole or two in the panel. You cannot use bolts with nuts without
tapped holes. It is important for a good ground connection to have fine
threads screwed into the box. Sheet metal screws and self drilling Tek
screws are not acceptable and neither is wood screws.
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