Longer neutral bar in CH panel?

Our subpanel in the basement (the main panel is in the garage back to back with the meter, and has only the main breakers and a breaker for the garage circuit) is an older CH model, probably original to the

30-yr.-old house.

Although the panel still has space for additional breakers, the neutral bar looks to have a full load of wires -- most holes already have at least two wires -- so I thought of putting in a longer neutral bar, especially if I ever want to add circuits. But the ground bars I see in the stores (even though labeled "CH") seem to be designed for a panel of a different design: the current panels have the bar supported at each end by a kind of "saddle" (and one saddle looks as though it could be moved to accommodate a longer bar), whereas our bar seems to have tabs at the side which are then attached to insulators.

Is there any way to fit a longer bar in this panel?

Perce

Reply to
Percival P. Cassidy
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But

(1) How am I going to insulate the add-on bar from the panel? I see longer bars in the stores, but they are designed to fit into those existing insulating supports; I don't see insulators like that as separate items.

(2) the jumper is then going to have to be heavy enough to carry the full current from the add-on bar to the original bar.

I'm sorry, but your suggestion doesn't sound to me like the kind of thing the Code would permit.

Perce

On 01/17/05 02:55 pm RBM tossed the following ingredients into the ever-growing pot of cybersoup:

Reply to
Percival P. Cassidy

Almost every time I look at this panel I discover more oddities: I have just looked more carefully and realized that many of those wires connected to what I called the "neutral bar" are the bare ground wires; there is no separate ground bus. Moreover, the bare conductor that comes into this panel from the main panel does not seem to be connected to anything -- simply folded back against itself and "lying loose"; but of course it's stiff enough that it's not going to go anywhere.

So AFAICS everything is grounded back to the service entrance only through the neutral.

This oddity is in addition to the two wires attached to three of the breakers (which the home inspector pointed out as a Code violation but admitted that he had at least one such in his own home) -- and in one case it's a red and a black: a pair of tied breakers, one with two blacks, and the other with a red and a black.

And another breaker has just one wire connected directly to it, but it then feeds three wires (with a wire-nut connection). So all these "multiple hots" necessitate additional connections to the neutral (ground?) bus. It's a 20-space panel (with only 18 breakers so far), but the neutral/ground bar has only 13 holes in addition to the large one for the "supply" conductor.

Could it be that the "separate ground and neutral in a subpanel" rule was not in force 30+ years ago?

Perce

On 01/17/05 02:55 pm RBM tossed the following ingredients into the ever-growing pot of cybersoup:

Reply to
Percival P. Cassidy

Since this panel is supplied from the Service Equipment located in the garage it is what RBM is calling a sub panel. Buy a Grounding Equipment Conductor buss bar that attaches directly to the panel cabinet. Relocate all of the Equipment Grounding Conductors (EGC) from the panels existing buss bar to the new EGC buss bar. All of the white grounded current carrying conductors; that most of us call the neutral; should be terminated with only one wire per terminal. If there is a bonding screw or strap that connects the existing insulated buss bar to the panels enclosing cabinet it should be removed.

Cutler Hammer also sells insulated buss bars for use in terminating isolated EGCs to the service equipment via a separate conductor that is run with the feeder conductors and insulated from the other EGC and the grounded current carrying conductor. These can be purchased from an electrical supply house and used to extend an over crowded neutral buss. The add on buss bar is bonded to the existing neutral buss bar by a conductor that is sized the same as the service neutral conductor. You may need to purchase add on lugs to accommodate the size of the bonding conductor.

-- Tom H

Reply to
HorneTD

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