Electric car

[Radio Man]

The missus is getting green and now wants one of those poofter electric cars. What are the arguments against it?

Don't the batteries pack up after a few years?

[David Wade]

You need a smart meter to charge at a sensible price?

Who knows. They may last longer than me... .... plus side you don't have to worry about E10 petrol , or whatever E number they come up with

D.

[Brian Gaff (Sofa]

And the materials used in the current batteries are dug out of the ground and rare and expensive. I think they are going to replace Lithium with song else soon. I did wonder if you could just buy the battery, and a charging circuit and an inverter, go on the cheap overnight charging rate offered and then run the house during the day from the battery? That would put the energy companies noses out of joint. Brian

[The Natural Philosopher]

You need a divorce. It will work out cheaper in the long run.

[alan_m]

And you think there is actually going to be a cheap overnight rate in the future with everyone changing their cars? I'm sure that the energy companies would welcome with open arm anyone willing to spend £10k on batteries to help cope with the grid's peak demands.

[The Natural Philosopher]

+1.

[tim...]

that you can't afford it

Not in any way noticeable by someone prepared to pay 30 grand for an (otherwise) 10K run-around

[Tim+]

For God?s sake don?t tell her that with a smart meter and charging 4 hours overnight at 5p/kWhr, I?ve paid a whopping £220 for 16,000 miles of driving. That?s sure to put her off?

Tim

[Max Demian]

Make sure the range is as short as possible. That's why women were supplied with electric cars around 1900: to stop them from straying to far.

[Brian Morrison]

There are many, three are:

1) risk of self-combustion which is worse than petrol/diesel/LNG

2) lugging the whole battery mass around instead of reducing mass with usage as with petrol/diesel/LNG

3) Having your car be part of an unofficial grid energy storage scheme where you come back to it to find it has discharged rather than charged. This is part of the plan for the fact that the grid is unable to supply the needs of millions of EVs.

[newshound]

The market is already rigged to make fashionable ideas economic. The way things are going I can certainly see a time where plugged in cars might become part of the stability mechanism.

Interesting article here

about how Ofgem are beginning to recognise that the "social" stuff that has been loaded on to suppliers is having unexpected consequences. Surprise, surprise.

[whisky-dave]

Not sure if this counts but a collegue is getting an electric car, the cheapest he can and a charger has been installed on his property so he opened it up and inside there's a raspberry Pi which connects to you're wifi hub. Being in IT he thinks this is a bit of a security rsik because it would be possible to hack into the pi and hence yuor router. This is sued so he can can cheap rate electricity. but ti;s not exactly clear from teh manual what goes on.

So if anyone has any detailed experiences it'd be intresting to know. What they do and whether thre's any real concern in the real world, as I'm not sure what advantage anyone would gain from hacking into a Pi inn this situation.

[Theo]

The Pi is a lazy way to provide the 'cloud' features, like being able to control the charger away from home on your phone, or being able to look up the current price of electricity and decide when to charge based on when it's cheap. It's not a really different threat from any other bit of IoT kit on your network, apart from the fact it's outside where people could more easily tamper with it.

If you don't want the cloud features, get a 'dumb' charger, or DIY your own smart charger.

Theo

[Michael Chare]

8 years is the number I remember, though I would expect the cpacity to decline over several years rather than suddenly become zero.

I hope that my next car can use HVO (Hydro treated Vegetable Oil.)

[Cursitor Doom]

Quite right, Brain. Lithium technology needs to be dumped; it's really a non-starter for extended use in heavy current-demand applications such as vehicles. I'd wait until the alternative is implemented and we can forget all about the nightmare of range anxiety and finding a recharge source when out on a long run far from home. In ten years time, we'll laugh in disbelief at the wretchedly poor capabilities of this first generation of electric cars. --

"The Communists are further reproached with desiring to abolish countries and nationality."

- The Communist Manifesto, Marx & Engels

[alan_m]

It also suggests that the UK education system is somewaht lacking :)

"17 million adults ? representing 49% of the working age population ? have the numeracy skills expected of a primary school child"

[Steve Walker]

At least some of the EVs have a management system that monitors how often you fast charge. Do it too often and the facility is temporarily disabled, to preserve the life of the battery just enough to ensure that it gets past the battery warranty period.

Woe betide anyone buying such a car second-hand, not knowing that the manufacturer has protected themselves from warranty claims, but in doing so, has dramatically increased the chances of failure for the next owner, by ensuring that the battery has been run as close as possible to likelihood of imminent failure, while not reaching it while the manufacturer was still liable.

[Paul]

Have you seen the cost-reduction curve on Lithium batteries ?

Someone has been pocketing the savings.

The batteries are being improved, while you're sitting there in your chair. Lithium batteries have not been standing still. They have been getting better with time.

Tesla bought the company that makes Ultracaps, and bought them for only one reason. Their "dry process" patent. This allows Lithium batteries to be made without "drying ovens", which were a major energy consumer during battery manufacture.

And it's not all Lithium Cobalt either.

"This makes fast recharging possible and provides high currents when needed."

"Proterra, in its all-electric EcoRide BE35 lightweight 35-foot bus"

The Proterra bus, the idea is, it drives for an hour. A pantograph connects the bus roof to a power source, and the bus charges at its depot for ten minutes. Then does another hour-long run. This allows the bus to do a

22-hour service day. The ten minute charge does not count as a full charge cycle, so there is some multiplier involved there.

That bus is being trialled here. They are sampling several buses and it's one of the candidates.

This solves the pattern one of the competitors had, where the other bus only "worked" for a four hour pattern or so. The service pattern did not seem conducive to running the buses all day long, like the current diesels handle without a problem.

The bus technology won't be going to cars, because the number of cells required would likely leave little room for cargo inside a car. It's not that this technology is a replacement for Lithium Cobalt. It's an example of designing an alternate, that makes bus schedules possible. The bus in question, isn't all that large, so would not be an exact replacement for a bus that is on the road right now.

What it would do for cars, is allow fast charging every time you charged it. Versus the "limited" fast charging offered now. Lithium Cobalt still has it beat on energy density.

Paul

[The Natural Philosopher]

Its not heavy current that is te iussue

Its that extended use bit, range

There IS no alternative

There will be no second generation of chemical battery cars

[The Natural Philosopher]

No wonder they voted to stay in the EU