Electric cars a step nearer mainstream?

No. Trolleybus systems are more expensive than diesel bus systems because of the cost of the infrastructure for power transmission. The vehicles themselves are mechanically simpler, and have a longer economic life.

I was looking for an example of vehicles where a direct comparisson of electric and diesel powered options can be made. The small end of bus and the large end of van are not that different.

None in service in the UK, plenty in Europe.

Robin

In message , at 01:09:36 on Thu, 5 Jun 2008, The Natural Philosopher remarked:

I wonder if they have studied the health effects from all the emissions?

I remember the trolley buses that used to run and they were really dirty things. They produced ozone, burnt grease, metal particles and all sorts of stuff.. and that was just from the pickups!

And I was trying to find something more than pure speculation and semi-informed oppinion to consider when comparing electric and IC engined vehicles. A small bus and a larger light van are not that different, and the causes for the longer life in electric vehicles (lack of vibration from the engine, higher mechanical reliability and economic life of propulsion components) will apply to electrically powered cars and light vans as much as buses.

While battery replacement may be a factor in the economic lifespan of a battery electric vehicle, batteries are inherrently much better suited to direct replacement with a new one while retaining the remainder of the vehicle than is the case with an IC engine. The other components of an electric vehicle power train have been demonstrated in service to have a sufficiently long service life as not to be the limiting factor in the lifespan of such vehicles.

While electric trolleybuses, trams and railway trains are commonly refitted several times over their working life (generally accepted to be

Robin

In message , at 01:16:46 on Thu, 5 Jun 2008, The Natural Philosopher remarked:

I'm sure they stop for rests (I don't know any kids that can cross their legs that long). Possibly a single driver - they are more used to long freeway trips than we are - although that doesn't make them safe! It's the sheer boredom that I can't stand.

In message , at

According to Google Maps, it's 837 miles and "about 14 hours 59 mins".

The passengers are nose-to-tail at more like 125mph (and modern railway lines, rather than victorian ones push that to 200mph), and the freight at 75, rather than 56.

If you look at the capacity of a railway line and a road for the same land take, in terms of passengers per hour or freight tons per hour, the railway has massively more capacity, and far, far fewer accidents. The reason the motorway network has a higher capacity than the railway network is that we have chosen to invest in infrastructure for roads, not railways over the past 50 years.

Robin

For transportation purposes (buses, trams, trains), the modern solution is a 3 phase induction motor with power electronics to produce variable voltage, variable frequency 3 phase to drive them. I'd have guessed certainly van sized vehicles would go down that route. What do things like the Prius use?

Robin

Its hard to do a comparison, they have to meet different legal requirements. What may be economical to do to one may not be to the other due to testing requirements rather than the actual technology.

Also remember that repairs to a diesel bus happen in a garage and inconvenience few, the repairs to the power lines for trolley buses cause disruption to lots.. a factor seldom taken into account.

AFAIK there is no legal limit on the driving hours of the private motorist. Of course if you do drive for long hours or after little sleep and you have accident your likely to be more severly prosecuted.

Thought the idea was to be able to do 600 miles (965km) without having to stop for fuel. B-) 60 average on motorways requires a lack of road works and traffic but given that yes it's possible.

Some years ago I heard about use of flywheels for buses. Thought struck me then - marry a trolley bus with a flywheel and/or batteries.

o The complex junctions which were a rats nest of overhead cables would not be needed. This would dramatically reduce installation and maintenance overheads (sic :-) ).

o Any problem on the road (accident, roadworks) could be driven round in a way not possible with pure overhead.

o There would have to be a clever re-connect-the-pickup-to-the-wire mechanism. So you wouldn't need a chap with a long wooden pole at the terminus of each route.

Average of nearly 56mph... Not bad for that run considering that a goodly whack (300 miles ish) it isn't motorway. I don't know what the A9 is like though.

Multimap says "835.84 miles, about 16 hours 43 mins" or ANADI 50mph average.

The cars dont exist yet do they? we were talking about teh optimal way to make them.

The Natural Philosopher gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying:

Because most people would rather get a new car on tick than keep a 10yo one going.

No. If that was the case, it'd apply across the whole of Europe - which it doesn't. Used car values in this country are far, far lower than other countries.

Yes, Fiat. They were one of the first to get it right. Mind you, they had to be...

Perhaps. But do remember that at 3yo it's quite possible for a car to be on 100k miles or more.

ITYF that LED brake, tail and indicator lights are far from unusual already, and starting to appear as headlights. Anyway - high-level brake lights, where LEDs have been common for many years, are frequently seen with missing sections.

Sorry if the facts are a slightly inconvenient issue for you.

Interesting descent into ad hominem.

In message , at 09:33:58 on Thu, 5 Jun 2008, The Natural Philosopher remarked:

And I was pointing out that "optimal" may not include "particularly waterproof", if experience from existing vehicles is anything to go by.

In message , at 09:24:24 on Thu, 5 Jun 2008, Rod remarked:

That is the major problem.

Most of them have loops at the destination, so a man is not required.

Indeed. I'm still running a HPiiisi LaserJet at home. Built like a tank and just keeps on working.

"R.C. Payne" gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying:

Indeed. Many small "shoppa hoppa" type buses are based on van chassis - the 4.5-7.5t Mercedes, especially.

But in terms of _usage_, I'd suggest they're very different - and it really is the very bottom end of the bus and top end of the van spectrum.

I'm sure. But let's not forget that vans and cars DO NOT CURRENTLY MAINLY GET SCRAPPED BECAUSE THE MECHANICALS ARE KNACKERED. Vans get scrapped because they've had the living crap beaten out of them by drivers who don't give a toss. Cars get scrapped primarily because people are embarrassed to be seen driving something "that old", and they're not financially worth maintaining.

The Natural Philosopher gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying:

"Illegal" in what way?