More O/T power station ramblings.....

[David]

This may have already been mentioned, but when threads go over 70 unread messages I usually conclude that most of the thread has descended to vulgar name calling. I could, of course, be wrong. :-)

Anyway, the energy market is in turmoil at the moment because the Saudis have decided not to turn the taps down and there is a glut.

This is causing major funding/cost justification problems for:

(1) Solar

(2) Wind

(3) Shale and fracking

(4) Last and not least Nuclear

I would just like to humbly point out that costs for new power generation based in the UK and not depending on oil and derivatives should not be compared to the current price of oil but to the worst case if the Saudis turn all the taps off and go on holiday.

One assumes that the main reason for the Saudi encouraged glut is to force competitors out of business and strangle investment in any new production of any kind whatsoever.

Give it a few years and they can then revise their output to meet the new market conditions and hike the price again because a lot of the competition has gone bust and/or been mothballed.

Wait until there is a new rush of capital investment to open up mothballed resources and start new exploration, then rinse and repeat.

Moral: we need nuclear to provide base load and back up the variable delivery of the renewables. Sod the current price of oil, just get building!

Sigh

Short termism will triumph every time.

The only alternative is to dig up Wales and store enormous amounts of gas to gives us 20 years of reserves. Still, most of Wales is unused at the moment.

Cheers

Dave R

P.S. didn't mention oil because I am assuming the refining to get the nasties out makes it a bit costly - can't see us burning bunker fuel any time soon. Again. I could be wrong. There is still plenty of spare room in Wales for oil storage as well. :-)

[Mike Tomlinson]

En el artículo , David escribió:

And the Iranians, now out of purdah, have announced their intention to sell as much oil as they can.

This is going to be interesting to watch.

I think it was originally to try and force the American fracking companies out of the market, but now it seems to be about more than that.

North Sea oil, expensive to extract (break even $60/barrel) is a bloodbath. Companies mothballing rigs, laying off thousands of people who thought they had a secure well-paid job for life. Food banks in Aberdeen and all that.

[newshound]

I largely agree with you.

To my mind the prime example of strategic thinking in the post WW2 energy market was France in the 1970's. After getting badly burned by OPEC price rises in 1973 (their coal became uneconomic earlier than ours, and they had become dependent on oil and gas from North Africa) they started a serious nuclear build. Their nuclear programme in the 50s and 60s was much the same as ours, with the same military background. But they didn't suffer so much from chauvinism, and decided that the Westinghouse PWR was the safer bet, so the licenced and developed that design. They didn't faff around with changing every plant, they built three phases each of which had almost identical designs, opening about one new plant a year in the main build phases.

This is how they ended up with 90% nuclear capacity and the ability to sell surplus to just about the whole of Europe.

They effectively side-stepped much of the local opposition. In the UK, when a new industrial site starts paying business rates, central government cuts the rates support grant so that the local area gets no net benefit (apart from jobs). The French don't do that. I read a French local newspaper once where the Mayor of some region was loudly criticising the latest siting decision; because it was *not* in his area, but had gone elsewhere.

[harry]

Nuclear is not cost effective and never was. The pigeons are coming home to roost/cat is out of thebag. They for the first time having to consider/pay for unknown decommission cos ts. Previously they have left this to the taxpayer.

KBbJXJ

Saudi Arabia has a new ruler/religious nut. He is bent on destroying the West's economy. This is the last chance to do it with the oil weapon. They have almost run out of oil in Saudi Arabia

When they do, there will be utter chaos. No SA national has done a days work in living memory. Virtually everybody is "on the dole". Why elese would the be buying in nuclear power?

ia/

[bert]

In article , Mike Tomlinson writes

What a pity they didn't vote for independence.