Amazon orders 100,000 electric delivery trucks,

[Joshua Snow]

Makes more sense to keep using ice cars and trucks.

Makes more sense to keep using ice cars and trucks.

[Joshua Snow]

Nope, because having the AC or heater in an ice vehicle doesn?t affect the range enough to see you need to fill up more often. In fact the AC on can see a better range due to less drag with the windows open.

[invalid unparseable]

Something overlooked by the greenies. Electric cars are free of pollution in use but to get there can generate considerable pollution:

Not sure what our current situation is but US is just as rich in rare earths but how do we deal with pollution to get them?

Of course there are other dirty mining operations to get other battery components.

[gfretwell]

It depends on how fast you are going. If you are stuck in traffic the AC might end up being a very significant part of the total load and the air resistance at 0-35 mph is nil. It is zero if you are stuck at a light but the AC is still going. In an ICE car, you have far more chances to refuel and we still have people running out of gas if there is a wreck on a choke point bridge on their commute.

[FromTheRafters]

Yeah, we are always politicizing the symptoms of overpopulation while largely ignoring the underlying problem. The swaying of popular opinion can make people rich, so we have arguments over which symptoms to attack and which to ignore for now - all the while making the actual problem worse.

[invalid unparseable]

We know that a large percentage of our population is functionally illiterate, i.e. their literacy does not extend beyond the ability to recognize street signs and newspaper headlines.

I am certain that a much larger percentage of our population is technically illiterate. These are the ones that politicians and businesses can more easily deceive.

The worse thing we can do is let politicians legislate science, e.g. telling car manufacturers what mpg their fleets must meet. This is what has led to the electric car push. The manufacturers understand the science but are complacent as they can profit from it but selling expensive vehicles. Also do not assume the politicians understand the science. They don't. Most are lawyers. Only about 6% of our congress have technical degrees.

[angelica...]

That's not legislating science; that's legislating the market. If people don't want a miniscule car that gets 100 mpg, or runs on AA batteries (hyperbole for effect), then it's a market issue, not a science issue.

Let's get politicians out of the market. No more farm subsidies. No more oil exploration tax writeoffs. Close all those loopholes and see what the market wants to pay for.

Cindy Hamilton

[invalid unparseable]

Call it legislating science or market.

I completely agree that you should let the market decide, not the politicians.

[gfretwell]

That is certainly what they said in Lake Havasu when the London Bridge people put in misters to cool that tourist trap. The folks in town complained that the R/H of the whole city was being affected.

[Ed Pawlowski]

Tough call on that one. If left to the market would our air be as good as it is? Every once in a while I get behind a classic car, a big 1950s V-8 and can smell why we are better off with unleaded fuel and cat converters. That was goverment mandates, as was a lot of safety early on.

Now if you are talking farm subsidies and such, yes, let the market prevail.

[Joshua Snow]

Duh,

Nope, not enough to see you need to use the gas station on every corner more often.

But you don?t in fact have to find the nearest gas station because you chose to have the AC on.

But don?t need to do that due to the AC or heater use.

Only those stupid enough to drive with the tank empty.

[invalid unparseable]

That's bullshit with social media alone.

[angelica...]

Of course I wasn't saying we should rescind environmental and safety protections. Frank might want that.

Cindy Hamilton

[invalid unparseable]

The problem with that approach is that the market couldn?t care less about pollution and you end up with the smog levels that kill people like in London last century and in LA more recently,

[Joshua Snow]

MythBusters did some tests that prove it?s a real effect.

[rbowman]

Yeah, I don't see an electric car in my future unless I can find a 1909 Baker cheap.

[Ed Pawlowski]

Way back maybe. I had a couple of cars in the 60s, 70s, that were dogs with the AC on. You could really feel the change and some even knocked off the compressor if you floored the accelerator. For the past 20+ years you cannot feel it though.

[rbowman]

There is at least one startup but it's a hard road between the EPA and 'It's much cheaper from China.'

[rbowman]

What the market won't want to pay for is the politicians' campaigns. A politician that can't tilt the game isn't a worthwhile investment. A politician that can't bring home the pork isn't going to be popular either.

The glossy crap that's been filling my mailbox lately often has the theme 'Look what I've done for Montana <insert special interest group>' To be honest I'm not likely to vote for a Senator who touted his work to send aid to California's fire fighters. Nothing specifically against California but their problems aren't my problems.

[rbowman]

I get nostalgic for that classic smell of a V-8 with loose rings versus that weird vinegary smell my car pumps out. A few times I leave the hatch up when taking out the garbage and whatever filters in isn't too fragrant.