Ironite Questions?

[Jangchub]

I am going to say this one last thing;

Oh for f*ck sake go away.

[Marie Dodge]

What harmful chemicals? Organicide? Neem Oil? Pyrethrum? Malathion (the cheapest).... I don't follow you.

Or do you mean you can't afford to waist money

Excuse me.... Malathion was one of the cheapest of the lot. The organics didn't work. I tried them first as you already know.

Exactly! This is an unusual infestation in the one "balanced" garden of diverse plant species.

A garden that is out of balance (probably

And yet this one garden has never once been sprayed since this is it's second year of use. It laid fallow for 2 years after my accident.

You haven't priced organic products then. Are you getting all your fish emulsion etc. for free? Here it's $8.99 a small bottle -enough for one tomato or pepper plant for the season.

Non-organic methods

Yep! That's why I should have bypassed the expensive useless organic sprays as soon as I saw the first insects appear rather than use them and let the population build as it did.

[Marie Dodge]

Why? Because I'm not a rabid organic fanatic? I see how you side-stepped the questions concerning Ironite.

[Marie Dodge]

How are they an option when they are useless? Why use them at all when plain water would do the same thing? Sounds like you can't get past the idea that they didn't work. If they worked the insects wouldn't have gotten out of hand now would they?

Organic gardening is not about store products, one

And this has what to do with Ironite and the studies I can't find online showing evidence it's harming people?

That does not apply. Also what has it got to do with Ironite? You obviously haven't been reading my posts since this is a NEW garden that laid fallow for the past 2 years. The first year there were no insect pests. Why would I waste money and time spraying anything on the plants? If there was this magical "balance" there wouldn't be such an infestation of these two pests in a NEW garden. That garden laid fallow under piles of leaves and garden waste for two years after my accident.

What chemical fix? There were no chemicals used until after the insects appeared and organic powers and sprayed did nothing... what does this have to do with Ironite?

A healthy garden

I think you have your posters confused since this is a NEW garden that had never been sprayed with anything.

you're

Huh? What are you talking about? Who are you addressing? This is a NEW garden that lay fallow under leaves and kitchen waste for the last 2 summers!

That does not apply. Also what has it got to do with Ironite? You obviously haven't been reading my posts since this is a NEW garden that laid fallow for the past 2 years. The first year there were no insect pests. Why would I waste money and time spraying anything on the plants? If there was this magical "balance" there wouldn't be such an infestation of these two pests in a NEW garden. That garden laid fallow under piles of leaves and garden waste for two years after my accident.

[Steve Young]

"Marie Dodge" wrote

Isn't that what you're looking for? new ideas?

Put together your seasonal needs and make one trip? Perhaps they have a truck that makes local deliveries? Maybe an employee lives down the street from you? Get creative instead whining and saying it can't be done. Most importantly, did you call them?

Adjust your glasses Marie, it's item #6 from the top of soil amendments. What did they say when you called?

How about 'soil care'? close enough?

>> We can't afford these organic meals anymore as they're $5 to $6 for

Were you fibbing when you said 900 sq ft above? Methinks you are using these products incorrectly. They are side dressings and mixed only in the root zone when planting, or scratched into the ground around the plant during the growing season. They are not used like spreading fertilizer on the lawn. Why give weeds a boost? Eventually they will improve all your garden soil.

Did you look up a few grain elevators/feed mills as I had suggested? Or were you hoping I'd do that for you?

Just a tad under 3,000 square and I use less than $100 of sack products per season. I don't know why you insist on doing things the expensive way.

Lawn and woods, wow! what a great place to gather organic material. Do you have leaves that fall? I pull this behind my yard tractor and easily gather enough material to turn out 12 yards of compost annually.

Young

[zxcvbob]

If you're nice, I'll show you my pesticide collection. :-) Chlordane, dursban, diazinon, nicotine sulfate, Cygon, lindane, all kinds of stuff you can't buy anymore. Pretty brown bottles. The thing is though, I try to see just how *little* I can get by with. (the chlordane and dursban are being saved in case i ever have to deal with subterranean termites; that's the only thing I'll use them for.)

I haven't used any pesticides this year except on my apple tree (and that didn't work very well, next year I'm gonna try sticky traps)

As to the Ironite, it contains arsenic and other heavy metals that accumulate in the soil. Use it once is probably OK. Keep using it, and the soil arsenic levels just get higher and higher. Do you know what Ironite is? Mine tailings from a toxic waste dump in Arizona (or maybe it's New Mexico.) Instead of cleaning it up, they put it in 5# bags and sell it to unsuspecting gardeners.

Bob

[zxcvbob]

water would do the same thing? Sounds like you can't get past the idea that they didn't work. If they worked the insects wouldn't have gotten out of hand now would they?

Sounds like you bought a bunch of expensive "organic" snake oil. No wonder you are pissed! The point is not that you need to buy organic products, it's that you probably don't need to buy anything.

(But check out an insecticide called "BT". There are several varieties and they are *targeted* to specific types of pests, especially caterpillars)

Bob

[Steve Young]

"Marie Dodge" wrote >

The relationship between product cost and shipping. You seem to refuse to pay shipping, yet willing to spend for a wrong product. Example: Pat tried to help you below, but something was wrong that :(

You're joking? We are trying to teach you cheaper-better but you are recalcitrant. Nothing works but what you have your mind set on :(

Here we are, off to Lowes again :(

Where? 100 feet from your front door?

I've given you leads and links to many.

Probably because they are not familiar with the chemistry. Does that mean you have to use it too?

What did you find out about the other places I pointed you to? How was talking with Eric?

As others have pointed out, your problem probably is not an iron deficiency. I agree, it's more likely a magnesium deficiency coupled with a nitrogen deficiency as the summer wears on and the soil gets dry. Magnesium is required for iron absorption. But hell, heap on the Ironite, at least you can find that with your eyes closed and you'll feel better that you're doing something.

Sprinkle some Epsom salt, rather than Ironite. Water it in and I'll bet you'll see the difference this year. Prolly within a week or two.

Steve Young

[kate]

Hey Steve,

Thanks! Great resources! I only knew about All Seasons.

in Nashville

[Billy]

Story Reprinted with permission of The Dallas Morning News 03/30/98 THE DALLAS MORNING NEWS

Of particular concern to scientists studying toxic materials is their effect on children. In the case of lead, for example, Dr. Weis said a child's rapidly developing body mistakes the toxic metal for calcium.

Because the body needs calcium for growth, he said, a child's body "grabs" and keeps nearly all the lead the child ingests. "Children are basically little lead sponges," Dr. Weis said.

Of particular concern to scientists studying toxic materials is their effect on children. In the case of lead, for example, Dr. Weis said a child's rapidly developing body mistakes the toxic metal for calcium.

Because the body needs calcium for growth, he said, a child's body "grabs" and keeps nearly all the lead the child ingests. "Children are basically little lead sponges," Dr. Weis said. David Shields, a geologist with a Dallas engineering firm who has worked on lead cleanup projects, said the key question for consumers is not which forms of lead or arsenic are the most or least toxic. The EPA does not make that distinction when it plans residential cleanups, he noted.

Instead, Mr. Shields said, the important question is whether consumers can make an informed choice. "I'm not telling anyone they shouldn't use any particular product," Mr. Shields said. "But lead is lead is lead."

------

It's a shame that you don't understand the consequences of your actions or that it's not just your environment that you are degrading.

[paghat]

Oh hee hee, i get it now, the Dodger is a standard issue troll! One of those guys who never had enough attention from their mommies! He slipped right past me with that good basic troll-trick of pretending to be female human such as might deserve to be taken seriously for a minute. Cuz you just can't overestimated human capacity for iggerunce and worth trying to help such an "invalid" at least once before they're sent into the land of the plonked.

Sometimes trolls are FUNNY since living in their mommy's basement & never having been on a date, they have lots of time to think up puns between posts. Punning is wayyy important to trolls and twelve year olds, but Dodgy One seems to have only hit age ten. Since none of it's witty even on childhood's level, I'm now only reading whoever responds to the trollings as the perpetrator lacks even the usual low level of troll charm to waste time reading. If you get witty on his ass I'll notice that though.

-paghat the ratgirl

[Jangchub]

Pags, she's not getting it. When I saw that list of pesticides...who boy. She doesn't get that, if you nurture the soil with compost you make for FREE or buy relatively inexpensively she wouldn't need all the pesticides. But, alas, brick wall and all...

[Jangchub]

The EPA:

of Heavy Metals from Ironite®

Ironite® is a common fertilizer made from mine tailings available at any lawn and garden store. The presence of heavy metals in Ironite® has resulted in its banning in Canada and lawsuits in the United States due to the potential release of heavy metals, most notably arsenic and lead. Bioavailable arsenic released from Ironite® is dependent on its mineralogical form. Previous work sponsored by the producer of Ironite® identified the arsenic bearing phase as arsenopyrite with the conclusion that arsenic in that form does not pose an ecological threat. However, a closer look with EXAFS has identified the arsenic phase within Ironite® as scorodite-like. Scorodite is more soluble than arsenopyrite, in fact, the dissolved arsenic released from scorodite can exceed the US drinking water standard. In addition to the data collected at Argonne National Labs in February 2005 that identified arsenate sorbed to iron oxides as the dominant arsenic bearing phase, secondary identification techniques are currently being used to confirm this finding such as thermogravimetric analysis and Mössbauer spectroscopy.

Contacts:

Kirk Scheckel, 513/487-2865 Aaron Williams, 513/487-2878 Christopher Impelliteri, 513/487-2872 Thabet Tolaymat, 513/487-2860 James Ryan, 513/569-7653 (EIMS#135367)

[FarmI]

???? By that do you mean clay that is/was drought affected?

[FarmI]

How much is it in the US? I bought a 2 litre container for about $12 about

3 years ago and I'm still using it up. I have about 3 acres of garden.

[Pat Kiewicz]

Let's see... I used to use more Maxicrop than I do now. After 18 seasons of adding compost, mulch, and organic fertilizers, the soil is still very sandy, but much improved from what it was, at least in the top 18 inches. Below that, it's pure sand for at least 10 feet, probably more. (I live on top of a fossil sand dune, which was on the shoreline from thousands of years ago when Lake Erie-to-be was much bigger.)

A good soak at transplant (I transplant everything other than corn, squash, and beans). A light sprinkle a week or so later.

One or two foliar sprays during the season, all over. (This used to be more frequently done. I've cut back.)

Spot treatments for any plants that "look like they need it."

I have 18 intensively planted beds (each roughly 4 by 8 feet) plus one long narrow bed (20 by 3 feet), plus a herb area, and also two beds of raspberries. Several of the garden beds get both spring and fall crops. It's all worked by hand with a broad fork (no power tillers).

The flower gardens (there are a bunch of them) might get one spray in the spring, and any transplants get the same treatment as the veggie transplants.

The garden is looking a bit sad right now, as we are hurting for rain. Can't fix that with seaweed spray...

[R M. Watkin]

Hi Marie, Thanks, but still not a lot wiser.

Richard M. Watkin,

[Penelope Periwinkle]

Her problem was white fly and spider mites, if I remember correctly. Is BT effective against white fly? I've never heard that it was, but it would certainly have been useful a few years back.

Penelope

[Penelope Periwinkle]

Oh! Oh! Get an infestation of Argentine Ants, and you won't have to worry about termites *or* fire ants!

No pesticides!

No worries!

Except for, you know, an Argentine Ant infestation.

(They *are* easier to live with than fire ants, but damn, if they aren't the best little aphid farmers I've ever seen.)

Penelope

[Steve Peek]