You have clearly worked very hard for many years breeding generation after generation of hardy and spray resistant insects in your garden. In that situation the more simple remedies that work for the rest of us clealry won't work for you. You'll just have to put up with your problems.
I find that simple home made oil spray using kitchen oil kills what I need it to, but then I don't want to have a resistant population of pests. If your insects can breathe through a coating of oil, then yours have clearly developed a snorkel breathing apparatus.
It has a huge effect on soil biota, and that includes many BENEFICIALS: ground beetles, tiger beetles, mycchorizal fungi, predatory nematodes, etc. etc.
But just a ways up the thread you complained about it disappearing quickly...then when you later said it was tilled *twice* and turned yet again before planting in the spring, it seemed reasonable to bring the subject up.
That's one of top tips right there...no matter what soil you have.
Yeah, but before I moved here, I gardened on heavy clay. Breaking that was enourmous work. (Even though I was 26 years younger!) The main part of that garden was broken with a tiller and 6 yards of trucked in mushroom compost. And it never had anything but hand tilling again. (It was divided into several long beds, raised up on one side like a terrace, running across the slope.)
When we added a couple of beds to it, it was hand-double dug with huge chunks of blue clay (some of the most solid chunks were hauled off). Took all the compost we had. Set up a few raised beds and never more than hand tilled them, either.
And never even hand-tilled without adding some additional OM.
Sorry for the top post, Idid not want to wade through this long post. You will find that a lot of products have been taken off the market, for one reason or another. Mainly for supposed bad effects. I think you will find that it wiil get worse. I surgest you find something that you can make or mix yourself. Hope this helps you.
I have no idea what you're talking about. I posted the prices of organic products from the Co-Op store. What chemical swill are you talking about? The Organic oils and Soaps? Pyrethrum? All those expensive products I tried that didn't work?
In your fanatical dreams. Balanced gardens occur in Nature, not in a bean patch or tomato patch. Pests will be attracted to any plant they use as food or for reproduction, be that plant healthy or sickly. You need to do some studying on crop pests. A sickly plant will succumb faster than a healthy one. That's the only difference.
A garden that is out of balance (probably
And useless Organic pesticides that don't work. Agreed, that's why these gardens were not sprayed with chemicals untill everything else had been tried.
LOL!!!! Those products are cheap? Now I know you're dreaming or have stock in one of the Co's that produce this stuff! A measly 4 lb bag of Kelp Meal was $17.99, say $18.00 or almost $130 to do my gardens. And that's just for the Kelp Meal........ you must live in lala land or are very wealthy.
You use the products incorrectly and you insist on buying the most expensive (organically certified). I buy kelp at a feed mill for under $1 a pound. I garden 3 times the space you do and my annual sack cost is under $100. What is it that I'm doing wrong?
Of course it does. I listened to you organic fanatics instead of calling my ag agent as soon as the pests appeared instead of giving them all those weeks to reproduce.
I don't use any pesticides, organic or synthetic and
Because you have no spider mites and whitefly in your gardens. I had no problems before this summer either.
Snip your foaming drooling blather................. SNIP!
You have clearly decided you know what happened on this property rather than accept the painful truth. This is the first year these pests have been seen in my and my neighbors gardens. No one sprayed anthing here other than organic bacterial worm killers on the collards. That's just too painful for you to accept isn't it? It rips your guts out and bursts you organic is magic bubble.
In that
So the Organic Dipel dust did all this damage.... my, my!
And all from that Organic Dipel Dust on the collards..... gotcha!
It doesn't matter since from what I've read most of the chemical insecticides don't work any better than the organic pesticides out there. The only one I ever found to work is the Dipel dust on the collards. The pests today have good immunity to most pesticides because of all the chemical spraying by farmers and nurserymen over the years. This problem started back over 30 or 40 years ago. Crops were drenched in pesticides. I well remember the planes flying over the potato crops spraying pesticides and fungicides that made us cough and choke. Now this is the fallout. I was sure the oils would work and was really surprised when they did not. Those here who so smugly brag they're gardens aren't bothered by pests will one day go outside like I did, and see pests that they've never seen before in their gardens. Until this year we never had insect or diseases in our gardens either.
Where is the site listing the people, animals or plants injured or killed by the use of this product? I Googled for 15 minutes and couldn't find anything. Not even a cancer cluster around sites where it's used.
Tell me what preys on spider mites and silverleaf whitefly and I'll tell you.
No "tiny" birds but the hummingbirds in the flower beds. We have the normal size birds, plenty of them, and they do peck at the ripe fruit. The pears and ripening tomatoes suffer the most bird damage.
I get WF each spring but
What tiny birds feast on them? Give me the names of the birds. Google them so I know what they are. Also, how do they pick them off the underside of the leaves without hovering in the air? Only hummers hover and they don't eat whitefly. They're nectar eaters. I know of no birds in TN that eat whitefly.
And these prevent insect and spider infestation how? Farmers are no-tilling for years now and still suffering from pest infestation. With all those beneficials in their soil how do you explain that? Also, those of us with hard droughty clay either turn under organic matter or give up gardening. We have no choice.
Of course it disappears quickly. The soil is full of microbes, earthworms, and all those beneficials you talk about. It's broken down rapidly in a warm climate in alkaline soil. More has to be added all the time. Once is not enough. I don't have your soil type where you can toss some compost on the surface and plant.
Then there's no comparison. No mushroom compost to be had here.
And it never had anything but
You're trying to compare apples and oranges - your situation to mine.
We wouldn't have to till them either if had a truckload of mushroom compost over the three gardens and was 25 years younger.
I always add compost or some kind of organic matter when I turn the soil over.
You can stop the justifications. This was the only Kelp Meal to be found and I must have made 20 phone calls. Are you going to tell me I can buy, and pay shipping besides, for less than that? There's nothing on the bag that says it's certified by any org. It's Espoma brand. Already you're accusing us of using it incorrectly and the bag hasn't even been opened yet! LOL!!! Funnier yet,... you're accusing the co that makes it of giving the buyer the WRONG advice. Yoo Hoooo... try reading the bag.
I buy kelp at a feed mill for under $1 a pound. I
So you think I have access to your feed mill? There are no feed mills, as such, where I live. The last feed mill now supplies the yuppies in the new subdivisions with fertilizers and weed killers, lawn mowers and flea spray for their dogs. Why are you assuming everyone has access to what YOU have?
And here I thought you were looking for greensand :( When did this idea of kelp jump up? The counter boy said it was good?
Who said anything about shipping? I thought one of Eric's employees might deliver it. Did you talk with him in your 20 calls? How about Dickenson's?
The only thing I've accused you of is wanting to spend too much money, then whine and cry about your bad decisions like it's our fault.
I usually gather technical information from less biased sources
100 feet out your front door, or a 30 mile radius? I'd prolly prove you wrong but I've stopped wasting my time doing your research. Have you called Eric yet? or Dickenson's?
Why are you such a fricken ass whiner / crybaby?
Isn't the Dodger a trip? She just blows with the wind. She'll drive 30 miles to buy what the counter boy suggests, she overspends, comes up short and can't otherwise afford to step foot out the door. And it's all the yuppies fault mind you. No, no, methinks it's too many years ingesting the 'mine tailings' she calls gardening :(
It is outdated information and this is a dead horse you guys are beating.
This mine waste product everyone continues to disparge hasn't been around since 2006 when the brand was sold and the ingredients changed. There is nothing harmful in Ironite products today.
As for the greensand, kelp and fish ferts as organic or alternatives? I'm betting no anyone here has actually compared the arsenic and lead levels in these various alternative products to the levels in the Ironite products presently on the market today. If so, please show the reference with date. If referencing a lawsuit, please show the actual outcome, not the news release.
Two years out of date? Get Real. What do yo want the last six days?
Bill
...... Read it and weep.
This from a bush EPA. Yikes.
..............
Release of Heavy Metals from Ironite® Ironite® is a common fertilizer made from mine tailings available at any lawn and garden store. The presence of heavy metals in Ironite® has resulted in its banning in Canada and lawsuits in the United States due to the potential release of heavy metals, most notably arsenic and lead. Bioavailable arsenic released from Ironite® is dependent on its mineralogical form. Previous work sponsored by the producer of Ironite® identified the arsenic bearing phase as arsenopyrite with the conclusion that arsenic in that form does not pose an ecological threat. However, a closer look with EXAFS has identified the arsenic phase within Ironite® as scorodite-like. Scorodite is more soluble than arsenopyrite, in fact, the dissolved arsenic released from scorodite can exceed the US drinking water standard. In addition to the data collected at Argonne National Labs in February 2005 that identified arsenate sorbed to iron oxides as the dominant arsenic bearing phase, secondary identification techniques are currently being used to confirm this finding such as thermogravimetric analysis and Mössbauer spectroscopy. Contacts: Kirk Scheckel, 513/487-2865 Aaron Williams, 513/487-2878 Christopher Impelliteri, 513/487-2872 Thabet Tolaymat, 513/487-2860 James Ryan, 513/569-7653 (EIMS#135367)
.............
Mine waste Good radioactive waste better. Spoken goatlike. Sheesh...
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