Not looking good for the Bosch Reaxx TS

[clare]

As well as stability control, lane guideance, TPMS systems, and (already) ABS.

[Ed Pawlowski]

The end result is it never happened. If a law was passed at the time, his device was the only one available. Would have been a nice windfall. Along the way he pissed off a lot of people.

OTOH, Obama care requires us to buy insurance or pay a fine. If that can get by Congress a shop safety device is not much different.

[J. Clarke]

I don't know about the others, but ABS is an example of a company that could have profited instead trying to save lives. Mercedes-Benz held the critical patents for ABS as we know it, and chose to license them free of charge to any other auto maker who wanted to implement the technology.

[J. Clarke]

The fine business was the way it was sold. The courts ruled that it was just another tax.

[russellseaton1]

And all of the states require you to have a state issued driver's license t o operate a vehicle on the roads. And other licenses to operate a truck. There is about a 100% chance everyone will use health care. So having insu rance to cover the costs makes sense. States require liability insurance t o drive a car. States require you to buy insurance!!! No one doubts the a bility of government to pass laws governing the safety aspects of products. The legal question is whether the law can require a patented device be ma ndated.

Can anyone give an example of a law that required using a patented, license d device? Seatbelts, airbags, ABS were all long past their patents when th ey were required by law to be included on cars.

[clare]

Maxeret installed ABS on 1966 JensenFF. In 1958 the Royal Enfield Super Meteor had alnti-lock brakes, I believe the early silver Shadow Rolls (and some Bentleys had a type of antilock brake where brake boost was generated by a pump driven by the driveshaft. The faster it went, the more braking pressure was available, and at low speeds the boost was reduced. NOt 100% sure, but from stories I heard. At any rate, they would out-brake a Ferrari or Porche and stop dead straight, hands off, without flatspotting tires. The story I was told was 3 rich white South Africans were sittinf in a diner along the Garden Route back in the late sixties or early seventies and they got talking about their cars The one guy was bragging about his Fararri 365 GT and how fast it was and how it handled. The other guy was singing the praises of his Porsche 911T while the third guy just sat their listening and nodding his head. They asked him "so what do YOU drive - and he said "a Roller" and they all laughed.. He said it's not as quick as your sports cars, and it's heavier, but you REALLY need to go for a ride to appreciate it. They went out, he fired it up and took it down a nice long straight section of highway up to 115mph, then said :hang on". He took his hands off the wheel and stood on the brakes. When it came to a stop he started counting, 1, 2, 3, 4, and at five a cloud of blue tire smoke passed them. IMPRESSIVE.

[clare]

But what about when the idea was first floated??? It takes a LONG time to get safety devices mandated in the USA.

[krw]

Exactly what's going to stop them. The fact is that it doesn't even take a law. The FTC could ban saws without Gass' device, all by themselves. ...and that's exactly what they tried to do.

[krw]

Driving has long been considered a privelege, not a right. Your comparison doesn't hold water.

[Leon]

Yes. For those that buy into global warming being a trend that will not change over a period. and we need to recycle to sove our lives from co2 and zombies.... There is the patented yard waste recycle bags. Only the ones that Houston has their seal of approval can be used. Those are also the worst quality and the most expensive recyclable yard refuse bags money can buy. One of past mayors implemented this law just around the time he left office.

[J. Clarke]

Yes, child, I know that antiskid existed before Daimler-Benz patented their electronic control system. I have sitting in the driveway right now a 1976 Lincoln with antiskid. However it did not become widely available or popular and there is a reason for that. Antiskid systems using hydaulic logic are not reliable without expert maintenance--they were OK for aircraft, and for Rollers, and for novelty items like the Jensen. But put them on a Volkswagen maintained by your garden variety Hippy and they will fairly quickly die the death.

What made them practical was the development of a reliable and effective electronic control system.

[J. Clarke]

Since we were talking about mandating the installation of a sole-source proprietary component on all devices of a given type, your example is irrelevant.

Your point is that you want to be patted on the head and told what a smart boy you are for coming up with a bunch of red herrings and straw men that are irrelevant to the point.

So, what a smart boy you are Leon. Feel better?

[J. Clarke]

To what other device is the manufacturer of said device required to attach that bag?

[clare]

Which even today is beyond the average garden variety hippy. (and not terribly reliable either) Just google "abs problems". I've had sensors fail. I've had reluctor wheels split and spin, split and jam, and split and fall off. I've had them rust, and I've had them fill with crud between the teeth - all rendering them inneffective. I've had wires break and connections corrode.. I've had to replace very expensive wheel bearing assemblies because the sensor built into them failed. I've had the actuators fail in Myriad different modes, including a piston unwinding right off the actuator screw, activators seizing, and pump motors (in the activator) burning out. Activator failures are very hard to diagnose - in many of the cases no warning lights came on

- the ABS just stopped working -often along with one half of the braking system. On the one with the spun off system I could even bleed the brakes, but could never get any pressure - to the point a leaky line didn't even show up untill the activator was replaced.. I've had them so sensitive that replacing a damaged tire with a new one after about 10,000km threw the system into a fit, and in much of our winter driving conditions it is virtually impossible to stop with quite a few vehicles with ABS (particularly with OEM wide tires installed - (even all season or snow tires). All ABS does in those situations is make sure you hit what you hit square on.

Benz basically put their patent "into the public domain" because they knew there were so many ways to re-engineer the system to get around their patent that they would spend millions ineffectively trying to defend the patent - due in part to the prior state of the science which rendered the patent almost undefendable. It had all been done, in one way or another, by someone else before them. Their releasing the patent just made it a lot simpler for everyone else yto move ahead without worrying about patent infringement suites like the old Selden Patent fiasco.

[J. Clarke]

The difference is that the hydraulic system has to be maintained--you have to do stuff to it regularly or it stops working--the electronic system in general just works without being messed with.

What do you _do_ to the poor things? The only ABS maintenance my Jeep has needed in 20 years was having one cable replaced after it got snagged on something or other and got physically ripped off.

Uh, huh, right. So there was not one iotia of altruism involved, in your opinion.

[russellseaton1]

Do you consider using a table saw a right? I'd classify it as a privilege too. There is some document written hundreds of years ago talking about th e pursuit of happiness. Maybe table saws fall under that saying. Using ta ble saws is a privilege. The government can mandate insurance and/or safet y devices.

This question still stands. Does anyone have an example of a government ma ndated device that was still under license and restricted? ABS, airbags, s eatbelts were all public property free to everyone when they were mandated.

[Ed Pawlowski]

I see it as a right. There are no laws governing how I use it, no requirements or registration to buy one. I can use it for personal pleasure or as a tool to earn a living. Show me the government mandates.

[Bill]

Your insurance company could say they wouldn't accept liability associated with it.

[Ed Pawlowski]

So? They haven't. I do know our carrier for Workmen's Comp is asking customers to buy a SawStop or equal but have not stopped insuring. That is anecdotal as we don't have saws at work.

Still a right.

[Bill]

Some say smoking is a "right". But if they charge $10 a pack, hasn't the right been taken away from you?