Semi OT Latestbunch of idiots.

Jul 29, 2013 322 Replies

Shortage of power is a good enough reason.

Not very likely, as a few random houses at a time won't be anywhere near enough. In any case, if the problem is a shortage of generating capacity, disconnecting houses won't be much use: they are not a significant part of the peak demand. That comes mostly from industry, commerce and transport. People at work don't normally use a lot of power at home.

There is a good reason why stored systems are call off-peak.

In the event that we do run out of generating capacity and we can't bring mothballed plants back on line, the first step would be load shedding on a voluntary basis, as already agreed with a number of large users. That ought to be enough to deal with any predicted shortfall.

However, if it is not, the next stage would be rationing electricity to major users. Allowing fewer trains, for example, then, possibly reduced working hours, as we saw with the three day week in the 1970s, although probably nowhere near as drastic.

Disconnecting domestic users would only be needed if capacity were very severely restricted, as it was during the miners' strike by lack of coal. In that case, it would be done by disconnecting whole areas at the sub-stations, so it wouldn't matter whether you had a smart meter or not.

The only reason to be able to disconnect remotely is that it is a lot cheaper than sending somebody out to pull the company fuses or, in extreme cases, dig up the road and cut the cable, for persistent non-payers.

Colin Bignell

I assume that a largish solid state relay could be used.

No, it simply switches off the supply. Why don't you try it, next time you have the lights on in your house, press the light switch and see how easy it is to turn the lights off. The smart meter can do the same to your electricity supply. Call your supplier and ask if they can turn off your energy supply. You really don't need a motor to cut your energy supply. A bit like you don't need a motor to cut off your bank account, it just happens. Try not payinging your bill and see what happens.

Now, stop bring a dick.

What do you mean by "simply"? An incoming supply, so far as I understand it, on eg a 60A fuse, could easily have quite a lot more current than that flowing through it at the moment that the switch off command is sent. How does such a large current get switched safely?

On my installation the isolator switch in a chunky thing, presumably with large contacts, powerful springs etc. I just don't see how a smart meter can have an electrically safe logic-controlled switch in it, that's both economic to fit, reliable, and safe.

But as you so rightly say, a lightswitch being activated by a pressing finger has a physical force applied to it. Think how much physical force is required to operate the isolator switch on a typical incoming supply. How is that being produced inside a smart meter?

Thanks very much for a reasoned, informative and professional answer.

Easily done. Have you seen the size of a normal 60A RCD? And the way it's tripped by a coil drawing less than 30mA from the supply? Turning it back on is, admittedly, a bit harder.

If it's the same size as the non-smart meter fitted to my house, by a pair of solenoids inside the casing.

A lot of the size and effort inolved with a traditional isolator has to do with ham-fisted users.

What makes you think you need a large force to operate the switch? Just because manual ones do doesn't mean an electrically controlled ones do. Just a small solenoid can trip a spring loaded mechanism. What might be harder is the switching such a preloaded mechanism back on, as that would have to provide the preload. Though I suspect you could have a mechanical system that has two stable states and doesn't need much to flip from one state to the other.

Also 60 A is not big in the scheme of things either. An ordinary MCB in a consumer unit is rated to switch 6,000 A ...

On Monday 29 July 2013 14:30 Dave Liquorice wrote in uk.d-i-y:

That's a very good point that these are designed ot break 100A, not the full fault current.

OTOH they might be designed to operate a lot(!) which would up the design requirements a fair bit.

Because people buy them. Why do you think the fonepad isn't as popular as the iPad, no camera on the rear.

I use them all the time. I can see why you might not.

If you are that paranoid stick some tape over it.

Dialysis, oxygen concentrators, shareholders.

The advantage of the smart meter is that it will (in the future) give you (the domestic consumer) the option to do the same thing. ie get cheaper electricty.

Welif you don't pay your bills you should be cut off. Do you pay your bills? Or are you scamming off the rest of us?

Tough, if it comes to emergency load shedding. More to the point anything that is "life critical" can't be that vital if it doesn't have it's own independant source of power. The mains is not guaranteed, anything from a bloke with a JCB or bit of overgrown tree can switch it off without warning.

Rolling blackouts are planned, back in the 70's the schedule was published in the local papers and they stuck pretty close (minutes) to the published times. So it would be a bit daft for some one to start a vital process that would run into a planned blackout period.

No camera on any of my bits of computer gear.

Woss Brian talking about?

There are very few shareholders of utilities in the UK.

The vast majority are owned wholly by overseas entities that couldn't give a toss if the lights go out either individually, across a town or across the entire nation as long as the plebs keep paying their bills.

I want the deluxe 'we always keep your lights on' smart meter with the nuclear + coal option combined with the delete all payments and subsidies to wind turbines and solar FIT parasites button.

Hospitals and most other essential services are large enough users to have their own HV supplies and they were not cut off as part of the

1970s rolling power cuts.

Colin Bignell

On 29/07/2013 19:55, harryagain wrote: ...

You mean I could reject all that expensive renewable stuff?

Colin Bignell

On Monday 29 July 2013 23:03 The Other Mike wrote in uk.d-i-y:

In other words, it's the government's fault. same as us having no new nuclear, and a high dependency on foreign energy.

On Monday 29 July 2013 23:04 The Other Mike wrote in uk.d-i-y:

Where do I sign?

That's a great idea. If we ration the number of trains we'll cut down their power consumption, and at the same time make people late home and thus spread the evening peak.

In fact as I write that I have a nasty feeling some civil servant somewhere is going to copy this post to a politician and...

Andy

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