OT: How the electric car revolution could backfire

[dennis]

There is no such thing as a carbon neutral fuel, its a myth invented by greenies. Even coppicing your own wood using hand tools isn't carbon neutral.

[dennis]

There is usually plenty of solar power to run the AC in summer (well for houses at least).

You get the RHI for heat pumps for heating but don't qualify if its reversible to give cooling AIUI.

[dennis]

They couldn't achieve 200 miles two years ago but they can now. Its really a case of what do the majority of users want to pay.

One of the cars I looked at had either a 22kWhr battery or a 40kW hr battery so you could choose what the maximum range was.

If there is a market for 400 mile range cars someone will sell one.

However it will take longer to charge if its flat. So don't expect to drive 400 miles just to pick something up and drive back unless you buy a car with a range extender.

[dennis]

Who says you can't charge there? Just because you can't now doesn't mean you can't in 20 years time. I doesn't take 20 years to pass a law requiring charging spaces if needed. If the cars in 20 years time are autonomous then you only need a few charging spots so the cars can go and charge themselves before returning to a normal space. A lot of things can change in 20 years not just a switch to electric cars.

[Chris Bartram]

a "USB Condom".

[Chris Bartram]

Yes, the newer NXWM buses have them, since about 2015, and free wifi.

[Brian Reay]

We looked at a Tesla recently.

Once the batteries fail it is a scrapper.

Not exactly 'green' or cost effective, especially was it was way more expensive than a petrol or diesel 4x4.

A triumph of spin over fact if ever there was one.

[Andy Burns]

Most sites I visit (fire service, NHS, schools, small businesses) don't have enough spaces for everyone to park let alone charge while parked.

There are cars parked on double yellows (they probably have no legal standing as it's not a public road), cross-hatched "waiting only" or "bus only" sections, on grassed verges, surrounding streets ...

[T i m]

Nice 'inside the box' thinking there. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

[Martin Brown]

Given that the range for a decent fuel efficient diesel car is close to

800 miles (petrol is somewhat less) you can see just how far short current battery technology falls in terms of user convenience.

Probably every night or every other night if you are lucky. Perhaps no worse than a smartphone but the chances of running out of power on a motorway are made considerably worse. I expect massive price gouging in motorway services for faster charging too (captive market).

At least with liquid fuels they only get to rip off those hapless fools who never look at their fuel gauge before setting off on a long trip. Electric cars are common they will get anyone doing more than 200 miles!

And will take something like an hour or more sat on the charging station (there is a limit to how fast you can charge batteries and not have them catch fire). Improvements may still be possible but nothing that will ever come close to the energy density that hydrocarbon fuels contain.

Hybrid cars might be one way out that has some battery and an electric drive train but with fuel based generator to get the range.

Actually some of the larger more enlightened employers do provide some charging point in their carparks roughly in line with the number of employees with electric cars. This is about 3 of them on the thousand employee site I know well. They were idle most days a few years back and now they are all usually occupied with cars on charge.

Tough if you can't get one though and the car is short of charge. The investment in fast chargers (or even slow chargers since 8 hour shift is typical in a works setting) is distinctly non-trivial. Also using power during daytime will add to peak winter load in an unhelpful way.

[T i m]

Same here, depending on why I might want to be going on the motorbike.

With the right gear and the right tyres on the right bike and the right reasons, riding in the rain can be just another facet of the freedom of motorcycling. [1]

I'm used to it ... from driving older vehicles where the heating may not have been very good ... or the electric car that doesn't have a heater at all. ;-)

Sounds like my Mrs ... me, I'd prefer to put a coat on as I can always take it off and never know where I might end up (pop outside for 5mins and then meet a neighbour and end up doing something else / more). ;-)

Cheers, T i m

[1] When motorcycle camping round the UK we did have to travel many hours though some pretty heavy rain and because we all had the right gear on, it wasn't really an issue, in fact it was probably less of an issue than the very hot days.

[T i m]

Ok.

Or the wires could be zig-zag slightly like the train ones?

That's clever, thanks for that.

Cheers, T i m

[T i m]

Possibly. I believe they did used to have issues with Trolleybus pantographs coming off and the driver / conductor having to go out with a long wooden pole to sort them out.

I feel the same when I see leading arm vehicle suspension ... it just doesn't look right (but obviously works).

Ok.

Coincidence. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

[Dave Plowman (News)]

I'm not a lover of electric vehicles, but most of the downsides you are giving apply to today. Things will obviously change as they become more common. And it would be a brave man who predicts developments over the next 20 years. For example, the price of LiIon batteries has come down considerably in the past couple of years.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

As are plenty other cars if the engine fails once a few years old. Or any other major failure.

I'm not an electric car nut - far more of a petrol head. But if you look at the advances in electric vehicles over the past few years who knows what the future brings?

[Dave Plowman (News)]

If you can't park where you're going, what do you do with the car now?

No real reason not to have charging points everywhere, with the electricity costs monitored in the vehicle. So anywhere you can park up legally, you can charge it.

Of course this will cost a fortune. But being a very clever Tory government proposing this we can assume they have done all the sums? Surely? Must be cost effective given how we can't afford to pay for care for the elderly or to educate our kids?

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Not really. Normal way to heat a caravan etc if no mains are available when parked up is a gas cylinder.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

And just how often do you actually need that range? Even more to the point, how often do you drive 800 miles without a break?

[Andy Burns]

Same as the natives, I park on grass verges, yellow lines when necessary; but nobody's likely to provide a charging point there, are they?

[T i m]

But it's only inconvenient if you ever want / need to do those distances in one go ... like if traveling across Siberia or some such. ;-)

Again, depending. For just communing I used to charge my EV every two weeks but then I worked at the top of the road. ;-)

Of course it's going to cost us all in the end (in money and pollution).

I think I only got caught out on range once but was lucky to be able to plug in at a mates and gain enough charge to be able to make it home. It's funny how most people are happy to let you plug your electric car into their homes but would think it strange if you asked for some petrol. I always offered to pay when using someone else's lekky but no one ever took any money off me.

Haven't people tested the likes of the Prius in real-world MPG tests and found they are typically worse than some good straight IC cars? So, once the (small) battery is exhausted it's not much more than a (over complicated, less recyclable) IC car again?

I fitted my own charging point at work (with their permission) and they didn't charge me for using it (the cost was low and I wasn't then using the company car for short commutes).

Depending on the vehicle etc. Mine would charge in 8 hours off a std

13A socket.

True ... but back then when I was using my EV regularly (30+ years ago) we didn't seem to have such an issue with power (well, not regularly anyway). ;-)

Cheers, T i m