OT: How the electric car revolution could backfire

[Tim Streater]

So it's a pedestrian zone, not a bus-only road. And it's not "no cars", since it says "and for access".

[harry]

Full power is rarely used.

[tim...]

The government seem to think that they can magic a solution to this problem

I believe that they will have to backtrack (but I don't expect to be alive to see it, unfortunately)

There's lots of crap in the press that the market will move to electric cars without a push and that just because every car manufacturer offers an electric option that everyone will buy them as first choice

But they wont

for the people who lives make the ownership of an electric car impractical, they will still buy one - even if that means paying an extra tax to do so.

One paper even want as far as suggesting in 2040 those people who are still driving around in a ICE car will find that the car becomes worthless overnight because no-one will want it. That's bullshit, they will rocket in second hand value because that will be the only source of ICE cars for the large percentage that still want one.

It's like CFLs, did the ban on incandescent lamps stop people using them - nope!

tim

[tim...]

well aren't you lucky

it isn't nationwide policy

tim

>

[T i m]

Looking at those pantographs they look more likely to 'hook up' on something when facing forward than backwards? And that's the thing, as soon as someone makes a mistake and swerves off line, what damage (and subsequent chaos) that might cause. It works for trains and trams because the tracks (mostly) ensure that the overhead cable, well, stays overhead?

One of the 'good things' is that with railways you can generally predict the journey time, unlike any road?

That could help ...

Yup.

;-)

Yup.

No worse than going on a train in your own private carriage?

What percentage of people do that these days though. Most new drivers can't (officially) even put a go-faster strip down the side of their cars without notifying their insurance co and potentially attracting an even higher insurance premium.

Not here as yet?

Quite, and worse aerodynamics than most cars etc. I think Zero are the 'Tesla' of the motorcycle world. ;-)

e.g.

~200 miles range, ~90 mph?

Cheers, T i m

p.s. Not completely office / family friendly (language) but:

[tim...]

don't believe it

it doesn't need a 400 mile range, it needs 320.

the most cars can achieve this in actual conditions

electric cars that claim this distance in laboratory tests, cannot achieve it in normal use

tim

[dennis]

These are electric cars not milk floats.

[dennis]

yet.

[dennis]

Its bus only as you aren't allowed to drive a car through it and there are only a few shops to access. Shopping is not access BTW.

I was going to post the other end but google just has black images.

So that will have to do dick.

[John Rumm]

Depends on the climate its in... If you take average insolation at say

1kW/m^2 then you could be talking about 4 - 6kW incident on a larger car's passenger compartment.

(keep in mind auto AC systems are designed for global operation and hence need to be able to cope with a hot day in Dubai as well as a wet weekend in Dublin)

The power consumption on my car's AC I believe is quoted at a peak of about 6kW... that presumably allows for mechanical losses as well though.

[Bill Wright]

All the objections to electric cars raised here will be overcome as follows:

1. I don't want to have to wait for it to charge up at a grotty service station. Well you'll have to because the green lobby says so.
2. I'd rather eat my lunch in a nice scenic spot as the car recharges. Well you won't be able to because the green lobby says so.
3. I'd rather have extra payload than batteries. Well you won't be able to because the green lobby says so.
4. I don't want to pay more for goods and services because transport is far less efficient. Well you'll have to because the green lobby says so.
5. I don't want my country to be spoilt by 10,000 extra windmills. Well you'll have to put up with it because the green lobby says so.

The whole thing is part of the greenies' anti-car mindset. They're anti car because personal transport gives freedom and they don't like the proles to have freedom.

Bill

[Andy Burns]

One little phrase buried in there ...

"In recent years we have struggled to build enough power stations for existing users, let alone adding all cars and heating too, for that is the plan."

Since when did the plan include switching all heating to electric?

[Andy Burns]

Do that before yo unplug it from charging? Even do it before leaving the house ... assuming you're able to charge it where you park it of course.

[Andy Burns]

Even Tesla who designed-in the ability to swap batteries for the Model S, have said they won't actually make use of the capability

[Huge]

Heating for cars, plonker.

[Steve Walker]

Many people drive 250 miles, but then will be at a location where recharging is not possible (we do Manchester to Cairnryan ferry port regularly for example and then another 120 miles on the other side). Some also tow a trailer and use a roof box (kids Christmas presents, etc. so Santa can visit while we are there in our case). Mid winter using heating and summer using cooling, hugely deplete the range too. It is quite common to share the driving so as not to have to take breaks.

A range of 250 miles is maybe just acceptable, but only where a recharge can be guaranteed as soon as you decide to stop and can be completed within minutes. Half an hour or more and no guarantee that the chargers are even available when you arrive at them is useless.

SteveW

[Steve Walker]

I've done Manchester to Stuttgart, picking up friends in Nottingham and then via the Dover-Calais ferry. Camped near Stuttgart for the night and then on to Salzberg the next day. Simply swapping drivers every so often. Four adults, plus luggage, tent, etc. and a trailer. Reverse journey the following weekend.

I've had a call at 17:30 on a Friday, about a relative who had died, got prepared, dropped the kids off at my parents, drove from Manchester to Holyhead, from Dublin to Sligo, arriving with 15 minutes to spare before the funeral. From Sligo to Belleek for a reception. Left after an hour, drove to Belfast and then drove from Cairnryan to Manchester.

Although I might not need it often, that's the sort of ability that I need from a car and I need it at short notice, so hiring is out.

SteveW

[Steve Walker]

Do it right and you wouldn't need the wheels either!

SteveW

[Steve Walker]

More than that. On trains the overhead wire snakes from side to side to even out wear on the pantograph so it comes quite close to each edge. No margin for error on a road vehicle!

But you can't afford to use them unless you've planned your journey months in advance and managed to snag a cheap ticket.

I've had occassion not so much to bend the rules as snap them completely. We set out for a ferry port with plenty of time in hand, only to get stuck on the M6 as someone was threatening to jump. By the time we could move again, we were very, very late. The choice was to speed considerably for the whole of the rest of the journey or miss the ferry. If we missed it, there was no guarantee that we could get on a later one (especially with a trailer), so we might have been sat for 3,

6, even 9 hours at the port. The later ferries were also slow ones so instead of a 2-1/4 hour crossing it was a 4 hour one. There was no way we could put up with being stuck in the car and then on the ferry for that length of time with a very bored 18 month old and his brothers 4 and 6 years old.

SteveW

[michael adams]

Along with everyone else who's going to have the same idea. So assuming there's any spare chargers left, you can all eat your lunch looking at each others cars.

For anyone living in towns all personal transport offers is the chance to sit in traffic jams, and then having finally reached your destination, having to pay through the nose for somewhere to park. Assuming you can actually find somewhere. While the greens all cycle past you on their bicycles, wind you up and then film your reactions with their helmet-cams. And then post it on YouTubbe.

Basically like a lot of the yokels on here you either live in the back of beyond and so need your car to get to the shops and hardly see any other cars or you've been watching rather too many car adverts on the TV.

michael adams

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