Electric car prices

[Broadback]

Why is it so difficult to find electric car prices? I've googled my fingers sore in vain. I can only assume that they are terribly expensive.

[Chris Hogg]

Instantly:

'from' given below each image. April 2021

and yes, they are terribly expensive!

[charles]

Have a look at ZAP-Map.

[Custos Custodum]

"If you have to ask the price, you probably can't afford it." (That's me, that is.)

[Dave Plowman (News]

Not found a problem here looking for a particular make/model.

Of course you may have the same problem Googling for diesel car prices.

[Paul]

Google "Nissan Leaf price"

The inline return (generated by Google, not a link) is:

Nissan Leaf / MSRP From CAN$44,298 Nissan Leaf Compact car MSRP: From CAN$44,298 Range: 243 to 363 km battery-only Warranty: 3 yr/60,000 km Basic Battery: 40-62 kWh 350 V lithium-ion Configurations SV S SL <=== click for details

Nissan Leaf SV Compact car Model: Nissan Leaf Range: 243 to 349 km battery-only MSRP: From CAN$44,298 Tire size: 215/50R17

Nissan Leaf S Compact car Model: Nissan Leaf Range: 363 km battery-only MSRP: From CAN$46,898 Horsepower: 214 hp

Nissan Leaf SL Compact car Model: Nissan Leaf Range: 349 km battery-only MSRP: From CAN$52,898 Tire size: 215/50R17

I don't find the info particularly trustworthy.

I selected that particular car, as it's unlikely to have "lane holding" or "self driving" or "premium entertainment system", and I was hoping to see a clear correspondence between battery pack size and price. And it looks like something is flipped in that table.

Some electric cars have been released, with a "price range" in the public relations material, and then "the company never made any of the cheap model". You have to be careful that they are not serious about the cheapest one and dealer availability is zero. Then the expensive one looks like a shitty deal, because it has a wee bit more profit margin.

You should also search for a curve of declining Lithium battery price per kilowatt-hour, to discover just how profitable an electric car is. It used to be $1K per KwH. Now, it might be getting to $200. Then those battery packs are beginning to look like a huge profit center.

The cell prices could be dropping, but the savings are not passed on to the consumer.

*******

Google "Tesla Model 3 price" gives inline result:

Tesla Model 3 / MSRP From CAN$44,999 Tesla Model 3 Mid-size car MSRP: From CAN$44,999 Warranty: 4 yr/80,000 km Basic Range: 151 to 568 km battery-only Max speed: 209 to 261 km/h Configurations Standard Range \___ with an inline link Long Range Dual Motor All-Wheel Drive / for each one Performance Dual Motor All-Wheel Drive /

So at least I can generate detailed model strings like the "LR" flavor of that vehicle.

In China, the Model 3 uses Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries, and in other countries it is Lithium Cobalt Whatever batteries. The Lithium Iron Phosphate might have 7000 charge cycles instead of 5000 for the Cobalt, but, with the penalty that per liter of battery pack, the range is about half. Thus, if you were located in China and did the above search, the vehicle ranges listed could be quite different.

The "CAN$44,999" is unlikely to be available and is an imaginary model. They will eventually make one, as the price of the cells gradually drops with time.

*******

Some of the previous Telsa were "a bargain", as they used a large battery pack for both of two models, and had an electronic limiter to prevent the range being used, on the cheaper model. But the usage of the larger pack, assured more charge cycles would be an unexpected bonus for the cheaper model. That does not happen too often, in the design of electric cars. Most established manufacturers would just trim each battery pack to the precise size required, giving no "bonus" charge cycles.

*******

The Model 3 pricing would include "package pricing" and the battery pack is not the only thing that changes between models. There wouldn't be much point paying for the "future" self driving option for example. This would add additional electronics to the car, but the programming isn't finished. And without Lidar, perhaps the car will never self-drive.

It's no different than in the past, the "optional paint stripe" on a N.A. vehicle would cost a fortune. Or it would cost $1200 to put a "wing" on your car. Like, imagine a Corolla with a

78HP motor, with a "wing" on the back for the sex appeal. The chicks really dig the 78HP motor. The burnouts you could do with that. Adding wings to gutless cars is an art form. "Look at the down-force I am getting" he said. I don't know if any BEVs have resorted to optional wings yet, as that would be a particularly bad deal. You get the best mileage on a BEV, if the wheels have wheel covers to reduce friction. A wing is the last thing you'd want.

Paul

[Theo]

I'm not sure what you're searching for, but plenty here:

[Paul]

You can also find graphs comparing some of them.

2021 Tesla Model S Plaid+ 19" 520 miles $142000 Battery capacity : 120 kWh Fast Charging Time : 22 minutes

The regular Plaid is 100 kWh & 390 miles

I just like that entry for the ridiculous range suggested.

I don't know if that model is shipping or not.

The entire bottom of the car looks like a battery pack.

Paul

[alan_m]

I see they are still putting one lady owner in the adverts as though that guarantees some sort of higher quality, care, or usage :)

[The Natural Philosopher]

"For sale, one second hand brain - perfect condition, one lady owner, never been used"

[Andy Burns]

Also private traders are putting "no tax", as though any secondhand car comes with tax these days ...

[Theo]

Surely 'no tax' on car adverts means 'Vehicle Excise Duty at a rate of £0/year'? Not a comment about lack of VAT on your purchase.

#include "ved_is_not_road_tax.h"

Theo

[Andy Burns]

Maybe it does now, but traditionally it meant "tax has run out", similarly 'no MOT' could now mean historic vehicle not requiring MOT, but traditionally it meant "MOT is out of date".

[Vir Campestris]

Paul, I don't want to put you off, but this is _UK_ .d-i-y. The tax on road vehicles makes prices in different countries vary wildly.

A quick google tells me Leaf from GBP 30k which is about CAD 52k. (Yet google also tells me from CAD 37k.)

Andy

[Paul]

The question was "whether BEV prices are hard to find".

And the answer is "not particularly".

Google was not devoid of answers.

And people do seem to write comparison articles.

Some of the details were hard to find, like actual KwH of some of the packs. And some of the details in a few tables, seemed to be flipped.

There are a few consumer goods, where only a review article has "secret information" about device characteristics, and not even the manufacturer web page has that info.

Via Geolocation, of course the search results will differ for people resolved to your area.

The first search I did, Google provided a table of facts inline, rather than a link. And I don't really know what Google used to generate the inline information. I would expect the Google tabular output to be corrected for local conditions (as otherwise, Google bothering to do this would be pointless).

When we see prices here, we "imagine the tax applied in our heads". We don't call ours VAT, but it's still a tax and it still applies, as do quite variable incentives. There is no uniformity on incentive plans for BEVs as you cross the country. Have an election, BEV incentive gone, just like that.

Thus the pricing of BEVs is never an "all in" price. Have you ever seen an "all in" price for a vehicle, when Ford used to charge $1000 to put a thin paint stripe down the side of a car ? :-/ The very purpose of me posting the table, is to show how cheap the Mini is. And how unaffordable a Taycan is. You can phone the Mini dealer, if you want a sampling of a realistic, demand-based price. Maybe you'll be told there aren't any.

Due to availability issues, the lack of computer components to build cars, the elevated price of used cars at the moment, even the most carefully selected BEV+VAT number would be useless when you got to the car lot. Demand also affects price. Availability affects price. ICE cars are being stockpiled here, outside plants, waiting for ignition modules to arrive, as an example of why certain cars are missing. You would need to be a "rich fool" to buy a car this afternoon. That could correct itself by the end of the year, as TSMC announced car component production would be able to increase a bit.

Paul

[Tr!pe]

hi