Grenfell and gas pipes.

Not so sure of that. If the same mistakes are made with both after a refurbishment. Which if you think about it, is likely.

Generally, things like freezers don't end up with damaged plugs and cables

- unlike say a vacuum cleaner. As they are generally plugged in and left like that.

And PAT isn't going to show up a likely internal fault in most cases.

Yes. So what would you be looking for on a fridge freezer, etc?

'How?'! So you're not familiar with the PAT test and the consequences of failures.

NT

Lol. Go see the doc about your dementia. Seriously.

I am well aware of the PAT test, thank you. So, you'd happly pass something with flex where the outer sheath is broken, where the cord grip on the plug is no longer gripping, etc. You check for all these things before wasting time doing insulation tests, etc. I was doing them with a Megger long before an intgrated PAT test machine was invented.

Is there something in the water round here today? I don't remember you playing the loon before.

What's wrong with what I wrote?

There are plenty of people who "PAT Test" who think all you do is to plug the appliance into the little box, push the button and read if it says "Pass" or "Fail".

Are you qualified to do PAT? Several on here are. And know what it involves. And it doesn't involve taking a fridge apart checking for possible future faults.

Having "banned" it, how do you reduce the number of that model which remain in use?

I will reserve judgement on that until we know what was done and what was done incorrectly. Meanwhile the cladding issue will result in everything being kicked out into the long grass for a few years.

Each flat had a heat interface unit (HIU) installed, in simple terms these are heat exchangers; the primary side is connected to the communal heat source (heat pump and gas fired boilers in this case), the secondary side is connected to the apartment radiators. There is also provision for instant hot water which is provided much like it would be with a combi boiler. Heat meters work out the amount of heat used by measuring the flow rate and temperature difference between the flow and return. I am guessing the gas was for cooking.

See link below for more information:

Wonder what else is in there?

Grenfell specific :

"the new smoke extract system has been commissioned and is fully operational"

"Rydon will be fitting vents to the ducts at all the points where the gas mains run in the building; this work is compulsory and will take about two hours. They will need access to your flats"

Not Grenfell specific:

"following fire risk assessments, the TMO had been working in partnership with the borough on ensuring that leaseholder doors were compliant following the programme for replacing tenants? doors"

"It was queried whether any of the non-compliant fire doors were in tower blocks, and this was confirmed".

While the cladding is obviously an issue, it wouldn't have been so much if people had been able to escape.

In message , at 18:28:43 on Mon,

In social housing, you insist on inspecting the flats, and if an appliance with the failing model number turns up you remove it.

People won't like it - after all they continue to use those Hotpoint tumble driers which are the subject of a recall.

In message , at 21:32:28 on Mon, 3 Jul 2017, gremlin_95 remarked:

Thanks, I think that explains it completely.

So you do agree that the core killed the people not the cladding.

The cladding is a quick fix that will keep people happy until it happens again.

The cladding needs fixing anyway but I wont say why for what should be obvious reasons to anyone with intelligence. At least for a few floors up anyway.

In message , at

It's the *combination* which was fatal.

Do stop trying to hide the real issue.

They died because they couldn't get out end of story.

The cladding didn't stop them getting out.

Removing the cladding will not stop it happening again.