Grenfell and gas pipes.

[charles]

no, the fumes and heat from the burning cladding did , though.

n

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Wouldn't it make more sense to inspect the fire escape methods - making sure firedoors etc are working and clear? And so on? That obviously isn't done in many cases, presumably due to the lack of will or money to do it. Yet you want to spend money and effort on something that wouldn't be so cost effective.

Any electrical appliance can cause a fire. If the circumstances are right. If you wish to stop such a fire quickly, sprinklers are the obvious answer.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Why are you trying to put words in my mouth? As I keep on saying, the emergency exit became unusable far too quickly due to smoke, etc. The stairwell didn't collapse (or whatever) as it would have if a core issue. What hopefully an enquiry will find out is just why it no longer worked as designed.

It's the usual meja thing. Non technical journos latching on to the one bit they can sort of half understand.

[Roland Perry]

In message , at 10:32:30 on Tue, 4 Jul

2017, "Dave Plowman (News)" remarked:

But something which is cheap and easy.

Yes, but there are few particular models which have specific reasons for concern. Look back at the quotes I posted from the Fire Service.

Almost every situation has both primary and secondary safety. You check that car brakes work, but you also provide seatbelts and airbags for when they don't.

[Mike Tomlinson]

En el artículo , dennis@home escribió:

You really are thick as pig shit, dennis. Here it is in words of less than one syllable for you, since you seem rather hard of thinking:

1. The core was designed to allow escape from one or two individual flats if those were on fire. It was not designed for a mass evacuation.
2. The building was originally designed to contain a fire within a flat for up to 30 minutes or an hour, depending which spec you read.
3. The residents were told to stay put if the fire was not in their flat. Here's a picture for you, since you appear to have reading comprehension issues:

1. The cladding, fitted after the building was constructed, started simultaneous fires in multiple flats, meaning mutiple tenants needed to escape, which meant the escape stairwell and smoke ventilation system were not able to cope.

2. Had the cladding been fire-retardant as per the original spec, the disaster would not have occurred. Why do you think councils and housing associations all over the country are right this minute ripping off non- fire-retardant cladding?

[Roland Perry]

In message , at

10:26:15 on Tue, 4 Jul 2017, "dennis@home" remarked:

It'll stop a fire spreading to more than one flat, at which point the regular evacuation processes will be sufficient in most cases.

Have you forgotten, so soon, that the LFB is called out to two high-rise fires per *day*?

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Very likely. And the point is why did that smoke get into the fire escape route so quickly? It had no windows to fail and let it in.

The refurbishment claimed to have a smoke extraction system.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Inspecting every appliance in each and every flat at regular intervals is going to be cheap and easy? I think not.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Don't be silly. The number of road accidents due to brake failure is tiny. And pretty well every modern vehicle has dual circuit brakes anyway.

[Roger Hayter]

On similar grounds to their resentment at being carted off to labour camps and re-educated, no doubt.

Do you have any legal basis for this intervention, or is it one of the more obscure clauses of the mass surveillance Acts?

[Roland Perry]

In message , at 11:14:01 on Tue, 4 Jul

2017, "Dave Plowman (News)" remarked:

Funny you should say that - the residents in Camden were up in arms that every flat hadn't been visited by a council worker in a period of half an hour when the decision to evacuate was made.

In other news, the Grenfell fridge/freezer was made between 2006 and

2009, so timescales for this kind of thing can be measured in years.

Rented buildings require gas safety inspections annually, already. This could be tacked onto that.

[Roland Perry]

In message , at 11:16:16 on Tue, 4 Jul

2017, "Dave Plowman (News)" remarked:

The latter is a way to increase the primary safety, and annual MOT tests rub that home. The lack of brake failures is a success, not a problem.

[Roland Perry]

In message , at 11:46:10 on Tue,

4 Jul 2017, Roger Hayter remarked:

Public safety, like the annual gas-safe tests in tented property.

You'll have read about the recent Currys PC World recall emails, encouraging people to register their appliances with the manufacturers. Surveillance on their customers, perhaps?

[Roland Perry]

In message , at 11:11:47 on Tue, 4 Jul

2017, "Dave Plowman (News)" remarked:

"Inadequate" fire doors probably. There are strong hints that the flat with the original fire had a front door which was sufficiently open, suffieicently long, for neighbours to be able to see inside. Perhaps they could be equipped with explosive bolts to ensure that once a fire has started they could never be opened?

To cope with the smoke from one burning flat, not a hundred.

[Roland Perry]

In message , at 13:12:22 on Tue, 4 Jul

2017, Roland Perry remarked:

rented property, even.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

The one thing you can be sure of is nothing that Curries does is just for the benefit of their customers.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

If all the flats were on fire, no need for an escape route. Everyone would be dead.

But the smoke from each flat has to get past the front door and the firedoors protecting the staircase.

[tabbypurr]

seriously?

plonk

[tabbypurr]

yes

I can really only conclude that there is something in the water.

NT

[Tim Streater]

What Dave is overlooking is that brake "failure" is not just a mechanical issue. Failing to notice that the klod in front has come to rest due to a queue of traffic on the motorway, and biffing into him, is also a brake "failure". Which is when the secondary safety kicks in.

Having jointed steering columns is another example, resisted by Detroit IIRC even though there were plenty of road accidents in the US where the driver was speared by the steering column.