Grenfell and gas pipes.

[Mike Tomlinson]

En el artículo , Huge escribió:

I've made some observations in another post, drawing on what I can find in the RBKC planning office documents available online.

[Andy Burns]

On the off-chance you might look at it, section 7 of

Well I suggest you arrange access to go and see with your own eyes then, as clearly that's the only evidence you will accept, I can't see why you're at all interested in a case where nothing anyone provides will satisfy you?

Cooking?

[Roland Perry]

In message , at 09:46:12 on Wed, 5 Jul

2017, Huge remarked:

Do try to keep up. When there's gas in rented accommodation you have to do annual inspections. At the same time, inspect the white goods.

Or maybe the Housing Associations newsletter is also an unreliable source for the flats having any kitchens either.

[Roland Perry]

In message , at 10:54:05 on Wed, 5 Jul

2017, Mike Tomlinson remarked:

The lack of heating and hot water is because the communal facility is non-functional. Probable damage as well as no gas supply, which has no doubt been cut to the adjacent dwellings too.

Heating is done via individual heat exchangers in each flat.

[Huge]

[12 lines snipped]

Interesting strawman.

[Huge]

Do try not to be so patronising.

Yes, but why are *you* getting so wound up (and patronising and aggressive) about it? What's it got to do with either of us?

[dennis]

Maybe some of the tenants have gas cookers.

[Roland Perry]

In message , at 12:12:07 on Wed, 5 Jul

2017, Huge remarked:

You are so obviously wrong that I wish you'd stop clogging up the group with nonsense, and potentially leading others astray.

[Huge]

I'm not the one accepting the word of the popular press (which is

*always* wrong, in any matter one knows anything about, and none of us know anything about this). You're not the one running (or indeed having any input to the enquiry). You haven't been there, you aren't directly involved. You know *NOTHING* about it, other than what you read in the press. You're posting pure speculation based on speculation based on know-nothing articles in the media.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Think you'll find those planning documents aren't accurate as to what was done.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Dear Dennis. You actually think they'd run in a gas supply just for a few tenants who had gas cookers? If so you're even dafter than you seem.

[Roland Perry]

In message , at 12:41:26 on Wed, 5 Jul

2017, Huge remarked:

Some of the detail can get garbled, but basic facts like the press reporting what's in housing association newsletters are difficult to get wrong.

That might be true if we were only reading press reports. But there's much more. I can't be bothered to re-post the urls because you clearly have no intention of reading them.

[Andy Burns]

Agreed, the press puts out incorrect information, in this case they've confused the PIR insulation with the polyethylene core, and confused water pipes to heat exchangers with gas pipes to boilers, etc and probably much more that we haven't noticed.

But I've posted links to information pre-dating the fire from K&C's planning website, the TMO's website and board meeting minutes, the zinc and aluminium cladding manufacturers, the BBA certifications, pretty factual stuff.

There were a few quotes (yes, in the media) from named directors of suppliers, but I would be amazed if they hadn't checked their facts and/or taken legal advice before speaking.

You've provided your own thoughts without supporting references yet slated others even when they do provide references.

I presume you've met the accusation of attitude problems a lot to merit including it in your sig?

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Not so sure about that. I heard individual boilers talked about. Even saw pictures of a poor installation rather obviously from a leaflet or whatever. But it seems those boilers may have been some form of heat exchanger - not what most mean by a boiler. Even although they look similar.

It's a bit the same with the cladding. To some now, all cladding is dangerous.

[Roland Perry]

In message , at 14:00:09 on Wed, 5 Jul

2017, "Dave Plowman (News)" remarked:

And which "planning documents" are these? The ones from the local authority's planning department site, or perhaps the (rather higher up the search ratings) collection of kites flown by the architects to get people to decide what they wanted.

[Roland Perry]

In message , at 14:36:00 on Wed, 5 Jul

2017, "Dave Plowman (News)" remarked:

If that's the one which has ben posted here over and over (most recently by myself earlier today) it's probably from a resident's pressure group. It shows a heat exchanger.

All cladding *might* be dangerous. Just as a generation ago someone suddenly decided that all asbestos *might* be dangerous. You have to look at what kind of cladding [asbestos] and how it's fitted before coming to a conclusion about any one particular installation.

[Andy Burns]

The tenant newsletter that gremlin linked to made it clear they were heat exchangers, not individual boilers. Maybe leaseholders in the privately owned flats were free to install boilers?

Another newsletter explains about the individual metering rather than just paying an averaged share of the heating costs.

And lets you see the type of unit fitted

[Andy Burns]

Some of these difference were approved by the council, e.g. the difference between the zinc FR cladding in the initial application and the aluminium cladding in the approved materials list over two years later.

No mention of PE/FR/A2 in the approved document, did someone forget to specify it, did someone assume since the original was FR the substitute was too? Did the person ordering just go for PE as it was cheaper?

[Roland Perry]

In message , at 15:16:20 on Wed, 5 Jul

2017, Andy Burns remarked:

I was trying to home in on the heating (gas boilers in every flat vs heat exchangers in every flat).

[Andy Burns]

Probably the same reason that glass reinforced concrete panels were used on the ground floor of Grenfell, instead of aluminium composite ...