Grenfell and gas pipes.

One source said they were welded steel pipes (perhaps seam welded with BSP taper fittings?). Should have been fairly fire resistant compared to soldered copper, at least until the fire really got going.

Yes, as early as the morning after the fire, "gas pipes" in stairwell were being mentioned by residents.

That seemed to be the preferred scheme from several options, not seen anything which said it was definitely the one chosen.

Could easily be mistaken.

Even if they were water pipes, and the work wasn't completed, then there could be firestopping that was missed.

In message , at 10:09:25 on Fri, 30 Jun

A picture has re-surfaced, that was posted online right after the fire - showing a boiler apparently just inside a flat's front door. And loads of copper *hot water* pipes. Also another picture showing what are claimed to be cast iron pipes taking gas into individual flats from the communal areas.

The former was one of the list of possible solutions to delivering refurbished heating in the original feasibility study, and some sources suggest the option chosen was a new heat-pump assisted *central* system. If anyone has access to records of what was actually chosen, it would help.

Of course it's possible that both were installed - the central system for the housing association flats and boilers for the privately owned ones.

In message , at 10:35:44 on Fri, 30 Jun

Sorry; welded steel.

a protected zone is a nice safe place for a gas supply pipe if it wasn't for leaks that is .......

every traditional four storey tenement in scotland had the gas supply in the common stair .....worked fine for years but then again closes were open front and back ....

This is what I don't understand. One resident interviewed early on mentioned the work done in her flat not being anywhere near the standard of the show flat - and specifically saying her boiler had just been thrown in. Ie very untidily installed. But then no mention of individual boilers on the K&C site. Just of a new communal system.

It would indeed. But the then the cladding was apparently changed later too.

Ah - never considered that one. I'd have thought the cost of installing individual units to a few flats where none existed before likely very high. Different if doing the entire block.

A four storey block might well have been fine with that cladding too. And any fire appliance can likely reach its windows anyway.

In message , at 10:59:11 on Fri, 30 Jun

That's likely to be a housing association tenant, so the private vs rental division I mentioned looks less likely.

Because they all had gas cooking. It was also stated by some people that pipes also ran out and through walls without any kind of mitigation of fire blocking systems. If there were gas pipes inside the cladding then this has surely to be a very very bad thing. Brian

Whoa !!!!!

Wasn't gas for high rises banned after Ronan Point ????? !!!!!!

As it happens, I live in such a building and the gas mains in the area are being replaced at present. I had a meeting with the SGN project engineer on Wednesday. The riser in the close is made of steel and is to remain. The cross pipes are made of copper and apparently require to be replaced if the gas supply is interrupted but this is not needed if it is not.

The project engineer explained that a surface mounted pipe is regarded as safer as it reduces the risk of any escaping gas entering a void.

We have doors front and back but I think the assumption is that that there is still plenty of ventilation. Why would a pipe in the close present a greater risk than a pipe within an individual flat anyway?

I wondered this too but when I raised the point previously someone said it was only for certain types of building.

In message , at 10:46:29 on Fri, 30 Jun

Only for ones using that particularly vulnerable style of prefabrication.

Sorry to all the engineers and architects out there, but if you had asked me at the age of 16, if gas in a tower block was a good idea, I would have thought you were joking.

Many, many years, my instinctive misgivings about the idea are only more entrenched.

I would bet a pound to a penny that there are quite a few countries where it *is* banned.

Presumably "British" gas is safer ????

Bison prefab, precast panels with rebar hooks and eyes, problem being got bent in transport and handling, site solution was to grind off any hooks or eyes that wouldn`t align.

In message , at 11:18:23 on Fri, 30 Jun

How many tower blocks collapsed after Ronan Point, because of gas explosions?

How many before?

Jethro_uk laid this down on his screen :

I thought, only for flats where the walls form an intgral part of the structure, where if there were an explosion - it could blow a wall panel out causing a collapse.