Grenfell and gas pipes.

On Newsnight yeaterday, a Grenfell estate resident (but not a resident of the tower) said that there were unprotected gas pipes running up the stairwell. This was also mentioned earlier by residents. But not by any pros I heard interviewed.

Based on other comments, I thought initially they had gone over to individual heating systems in each flat - hence the need for new gas pipes. But it seems this is wrong - it had a new communal heating system.

So why the need for new gas pipes to all the flats? Or are they in fact not gas but water? A layman might well not know the difference.

Sadly, running any new services through a fire protected area might well compromise that, if badly done.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)
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One source said they were welded steel pipes (perhaps seam welded with BSP taper fittings?). Should have been fairly fire resistant compared to soldered copper, at least until the fire really got going.

Reply to
newshound

Yes, as early as the morning after the fire, "gas pipes" in stairwell were being mentioned by residents.

That seemed to be the preferred scheme from several options, not seen anything which said it was definitely the one chosen.

Could easily be mistaken.

Even if they were water pipes, and the work wasn't completed, then there could be firestopping that was missed.

Reply to
Andy Burns

In message , at 10:09:25 on Fri, 30 Jun

2017, "Dave Plowman (News)" remarked:

A picture has re-surfaced, that was posted online right after the fire - showing a boiler apparently just inside a flat's front door. And loads of copper *hot water* pipes. Also another picture showing what are claimed to be cast iron pipes taking gas into individual flats from the communal areas.

The former was one of the list of possible solutions to delivering refurbished heating in the original feasibility study, and some sources suggest the option chosen was a new heat-pump assisted *central* system. If anyone has access to records of what was actually chosen, it would help.

Of course it's possible that both were installed - the central system for the housing association flats and boilers for the privately owned ones.

Reply to
Roland Perry

In message , at 10:35:44 on Fri, 30 Jun

2017, Roland Perry remarked:

Sorry; welded steel.

Reply to
Roland Perry

a protected zone is a nice safe place for a gas supply pipe if it wasn't for leaks that is .......

Reply to
Jim GM4DHJ ...

every traditional four storey tenement in scotland had the gas supply in the common stair .....worked fine for years but then again closes were open front and back ....

Reply to
Jim GM4DHJ ...

This is what I don't understand. One resident interviewed early on mentioned the work done in her flat not being anywhere near the standard of the show flat - and specifically saying her boiler had just been thrown in. Ie very untidily installed. But then no mention of individual boilers on the K&C site. Just of a new communal system.

It would indeed. But the then the cladding was apparently changed later too.

Ah - never considered that one. I'd have thought the cost of installing individual units to a few flats where none existed before likely very high. Different if doing the entire block.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

A four storey block might well have been fine with that cladding too. And any fire appliance can likely reach its windows anyway.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

In message , at 10:59:11 on Fri, 30 Jun

2017, "Dave Plowman (News)" remarked:

That's likely to be a housing association tenant, so the private vs rental division I mentioned looks less likely.

Reply to
Roland Perry

Because they all had gas cooking. It was also stated by some people that pipes also ran out and through walls without any kind of mitigation of fire blocking systems. If there were gas pipes inside the cladding then this has surely to be a very very bad thing. Brian

Reply to
Brian Gaff

Whoa !!!!!

Wasn't gas for high rises banned after Ronan Point ????? !!!!!!

Reply to
Jethro_uk
[snip]

As it happens, I live in such a building and the gas mains in the area are being replaced at present. I had a meeting with the SGN project engineer on Wednesday. The riser in the close is made of steel and is to remain. The cross pipes are made of copper and apparently require to be replaced if the gas supply is interrupted but this is not needed if it is not.

The project engineer explained that a surface mounted pipe is regarded as safer as it reduces the risk of any escaping gas entering a void.

We have doors front and back but I think the assumption is that that there is still plenty of ventilation. Why would a pipe in the close present a greater risk than a pipe within an individual flat anyway?

Reply to
Scott

I wondered this too but when I raised the point previously someone said it was only for certain types of building.

Reply to
Scott

In message , at 10:46:29 on Fri, 30 Jun

2017, Jethro_uk remarked:

Only for ones using that particularly vulnerable style of prefabrication.

Reply to
Roland Perry

Sorry to all the engineers and architects out there, but if you had asked me at the age of 16, if gas in a tower block was a good idea, I would have thought you were joking.

Many, many years, my instinctive misgivings about the idea are only more entrenched.

I would bet a pound to a penny that there are quite a few countries where it *is* banned.

Presumably "British" gas is safer ????

Reply to
Jethro_uk

Bison prefab, precast panels with rebar hooks and eyes, problem being got bent in transport and handling, site solution was to grind off any hooks or eyes that wouldn`t align.

Reply to
Adam Aglionby

In message , at 11:18:23 on Fri, 30 Jun

2017, Jethro_uk remarked:

How many tower blocks collapsed after Ronan Point, because of gas explosions?

Reply to
Roland Perry

How many before?

Reply to
dennis

Jethro_uk laid this down on his screen :

I thought, only for flats where the walls form an intgral part of the structure, where if there were an explosion - it could blow a wall panel out causing a collapse.

Reply to
Harry Bloomfield

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