Adam's apprentices

Would it not go through the window and the cost would probably bankrupt the scaffolding company. Yes it seems that the scaffolding is often erected by a contractor of the contractor. Brian

I had scaffolding at the front of my house during the summer and around

Price guide for anyone interested (SE Essex): £360 incl. VAT. I had the scaffolding up for around 5 weeks with no extra charges.

Should put a photo up of that.

This time last year a third year apprentice was wiring new-builds on his own. I worked through through the first one with him and made sure he was happy with what he had to do. He completed all houses with no c*ck ups.

This year we have 2 third year apprentices. Neither of them can fit a back box straight, wire up a two way lightswitch etc etc. Due to the minimum wage rules and the fact we run a business then they will probably soon be laid off.

Could I suggest that being able to wire up a two way lightswitch should be an *entry criterion* to being an electrical apprentice?

Fairly sure I could have done it at 16.

In fact I was probably doing it about 8, with a battery and paperclips and brass paper fasteners for switches :-)

If someone hasn't got to that stage by 16, where is the evidence of their interest and ability?

Owain

Admittedly my back boxes aren't always straight, but I blame the bricks...

I think I was about 12 or 13 when I installed the two mains spotlights, pair of dimmers and changed the switch near the door of my bedroom from a single gang to a 3-gang, with two way switching on both the spotlights.

SteveW

Not a new phenomenon though, back when we first got broadband the first chap, very young came to fit the junction box on the wall, when later on after the whole thing had been in for a year or so, the box fell off the wall, the guy had used a screw straight into the brickwork and a nail in the other screw.

Brian

I've just had a 2nd year electronic engineering student studying for a degree ask me what the connector on the end of the soldering iron is for, I said to connect to the power supply, what power supply ? was the next question.

When they start with use they cannot use a screwdriver. Things were different 10 years ago, they get worse every year in most cases. Every so often you get a good one.

Why doesn't your boss give potential apprentices a simple test to find out if they have even the slightest knowledge of the subject they wish to be paid to learn about?

For example:

1. What is the UK mains voltage? (Accept both 240 & 230, though the latter answer might indicate a better knowledge of the subject.)

1. What are the colours of the wires in a 3-core mains lead?

L? N? E?

1. [Line drawing of the inside of a 13A plug.]

On the drawing, using the letters C, E, F, L & N, show the Live, Neutral and Earth connections and the position of the Fuse and Cable clamp.

I'm sure you can think up a few more simple general knowledge questions in similar vein which would, at least, indicate that they have a head on their shoulders and are not complete and utter thickos - which many of your apprentces seemm to be!

I once asked one of them how old they were.

Just myself and him in the same room so nothing too complicated.

I think his answer was some sort of a question.

Me "How old are you?" Apprentice "Who me?"

It's easier just to not talk to some of them.

I was born in 1944. I passed the 11 Plus and went to a Church school, which covered a large area. It was also a Secondary Modern for the local area. The Grammar side had 3 forms, A, B, & C whilst the Secondary Modern side had two forms, D & E.

After WWII, 'The Bulge' started. By the time I left school, the fisrt year extended to 1H!

Of course, not long after I left school and started work, the bulge started to emerge onto the employment market.

Our Group Scoutmaster used to chat to us older boys after weekly meetings and gave the lads who were on the verge of leaving school a warning.

He worked for Van den Bergh & Jurgens (part of Unilever) who manufactured Stork Margerine in the main.

Their apprenticeships were well respected and sought after and they were now being inundated with applications, so they had found a devious way of reducing the numbers.

They held an examination for all applicant, each of whom was provided with:

A sheet of blotting paper; A rough sheet; An answer paper and A question paper.

At the top of the question paper it said "ALL WORKING MUST BE SHOWN ON THE ANSWER PAPER".

At the end of the exam, every sheet of paper was collected from each desk. If anything had been scribbled on any piece of paper other than the answer paper, it was an instant fail. The answer paper might have been 100% correct but it wan't even marked.

Reason for failure? 'Cannot obey a simple instruction.'

The point I was trying to make is that they shouldn't even be there for you to (attempt to) talk to them in the first place!

ISTM such questions would test how much they /already/ know - which could vary enormously through chance (eg whether or not they had a parent who did stuff). What the employer wants to know* is whether or not they have what it takes to /become/ an electrician. I'd have thought that was better assessed by testing things all school leavers ought to know - e.g. basic arithmetic, algebra and comprehension.

Oh, and a test based on a 13A plug would also tend to put recent immigrants at a disadvantage so arguably unlawful as indirect racial discrimination.

That would make sense if they had said all working should be *confned* to the answer paper. The instructions as you quote them do *not* forbid doing rough working on the blotter and transcribing it in neater writing to the answer paper.

Your problem is that you want someone who actually can think. It would seem that in Terry's case they wanted mindless robots.

The company that I used to work for seemed able to weed out most of the dross before offering an apprenticeship and then gave short classroom type practical training on the basics before unleashing them into the general workforce.

A fair question if he has only been given the working end of a temperature controlled soldering iron and no control box. Or was the connector on the end of the lead a mains plug?

Which is clearly nonsense.

If at the top of the question paper it had said

"ALL WORKING MUST BE SHOWN AND *ONLY* ON THE ANSWER PAPER"

Then fair enough. But it didn't, did it ?

But as it stands had any of the candidates first done their workings on the rough sheet, and then copied all them exactly but more neatly on the answer paper, then they'd have satisfied the instruction.

In fact they might even have been more satisfactory candidates. As being able to do rough workings (as was implied by the provision of the rough sheet) in line with their thought processes, rather than being slowed down by the need to be neat, and copying out the workings afterwards would probably be a far better way of proceeding.

You won't necesarily choose smart people by setting trick questions. And it is a trick given the provision of a blank sheet of paper. All you're doing is bolstering the ego of the smartarse who came up with the flawed idea,

michael adams

...

That kind of ?tinkering? by children is pretty well a thing of the past.

Toys like Mecanno, the various electronic assembly toys, books which encouraged youngsters to experiment with basic science etc, are no longer popular.

Like you, I was tinkering with basic electrical things at 8 or so, I went on to gain an engineering degree, and worked in industry.

Now too many youngsters want to be ?celebrities?.

Without wishing to be racist etc, back in the 80s I was working in a developing country on some military equipment along side some Americans. Some local Army person were assigned to help us. One of the Americans made some disparaging comments about the technical skills of his local assistants while we were having dinner one evening. As one of his colleagues pointed out, the soldiers had probably never had even a bicycle as a child let alone worked on anything as complicated as the kit they now were faced with. By not ensuring our children explore basic technology etc we are placing them in the same position. Playing computer games / having the latest mobile phone isn?t basic technology.