OT: Electric car batteries

Why has nobody ever thought of a removable electric car battery? You know how with a camping gas cylinder, you take it to be refilled, but they don't refill it while you wait, you simply get a full one in exchange? Why not do the same with the car batteries? A "petrol station" could have a big rack of batteries charging at whatever rate, and you simply pay, take a full one, and slot in your empty one.

Reply to
James Wilkinson
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Oops, should have googled first. Someone is doing it properly:

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Reply to
James Wilkinson

now how with a camping gas cylinder, you take it to be refilled, but they d on't refill it while you wait, you simply get a full one in exchange? Why not do the same with the car batteries? A "petrol station" could have a bi g rack of batteries charging at whatever rate, and you simply pay, take a f ull one, and slot in your empty one.

youtu.be/H5V0vL3nnHY

very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

tesla tried that it wasnt very popular......

Reply to
bob haller

Don't be absurd, that's the method anyone with half a brain would use. 90 seconds or 30 minutes to charge your car? Obvious choice.

Reply to
James Wilkinson

That's certainly how I envision it. The customer would even get a credit for the remaining charge that is left in his low battery. The facility would look like a high-tech car-wash - drive in - robots do the work. The low batteries would be re-charged when grid rates are lowest - overnight & weekends. John T.

Reply to
hubops

What do you think this robot facility would cost? The cost of these new facilities would be one big issue. And then you have the chicken and the egg problem, ie who's going to make the big investment when there are no cars that need it and who's going to buy the car without the facilities? Then you have the biggest problem, which is that all this is avoided with a gas powered car or a hybrid and last time I checked, they cost less without the recharging headaches.

Reply to
trader_4

It's certainly a good idea. They also tried it in Israel, a small country where it seemed it might be easier to do than in a big country. It was in the newspaper in the US. They were going to have machine-accessible batteries, and a machine that would take the old one out and put the new one in (since they are heavy.)

It wasn't as popular as they hoped, and maybe they were counting on enrollment to raise the money to build more battery replacement locations. At any rate, eventually they put it up to a vote of those who were using the service, whether, if I recall the choice correctly, to have fewer battery replacement locations than once planned, but all over the country, or to have them in the Tel Aviv area, 50 or however many miles from Tel Aviv. The subscribers voted for the second choice. But the article below seems to say that that didn't last either, and maybe I suppose the cars are just slow-charged at the homes and jobs of whoever owns them now.

Googling I find

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which says they started in 2007, peaked in 2012, and were bankrupt by

2013. They had tried in Denmark and Hawaii too, also small places, but maybe they did that after they didnt' get enough customers in Israel, and then had the same problem in the other places too. This page has a short part called "History of the battery swap concept" which includes "Electric forklifts have used battery swapping since at least 1946[32][33] and a rapid battery replacement system was implemented to help maintain 50 electric buses at the 2008 Summer Olympics in China.[34]"

Googling also shows that others in Israel are working instad on a quickly-rechargeable car.

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Reply to
Onlooker

the fundamental problem is that the battery itself which can be considered a container is much more valuable compared to the value of the energy it holds.

Are you going to be happy when you buy a new car and at the first reill you trade in your brand new expensive battery for an old one?

It works OK for propane tanks becasue the tank is not worth much more compared to the fuel.

Reply to
makolber

Finally someone gave the real reason. Batteries are expensive and they wear out. Fleets, on the other hand, could benefit from a system like this. A fleet of service vehicles, police cars, taxis, etc where all the batteries are owned by the same entity would work. I expect that's where we will see this succeed. Of course, gas will have to rise in cost again such that significant money can be saved by going electric.

Reply to
Pat

You're a little slow on the draw. One problem is what consists of a 'full one'. Do you really want to trade your brand new battery pack for one at the end of its life?

Reply to
rbowman

Yes, that's the method you would use. However people with two halves of a brain...

Reply to
rbowman

Same reason I don't use the high priced Blue Rhino gas tanks. I don't want someone else's crap when I have a good one that I bought with my money.

If I can charge my car at home, why would I want to pay to swap a battery? Only useful for long tips, not needed and will cost a premium for short trips.

Limited market, high price.

Reply to
Ed Pawlowski

That is one problem. Swapping out forklift batteries is common, but the company owns all the batteries, and replaces them as needed. Who is responsible for replacing the car batteries when they fail?

Reply to
rbowman

Charging only in off peak times means having to carry a larger inventory. That is added cost.

Who determines the credit? If I charged where we pay 20¢ a kW and trade in where they pay half that, I lose even more.

Robots can do the job where the program fits a particular car, but now design is limited as easy access is important too. It has to be universal to work. Can you trade in your Betamax tapes at the same place?

Reply to
Ed Pawlowski

Tell me why sitting about for 30 minutes is advantageous to you.

Reply to
James Wilkinson

I didn't expect people to read all 4 links in my previous post, but in that system, the owner of the car didn't own the battery in it. In the same way, sort of, one buys a car but it doesn't come with more than a little bit of gasoline. So it wasn't "your brand new battery", it belonged to the battery company from the beginning.

There are a lot of things about owning a car, a home, a business, that people don't like, but if they want to have a car with, say, Sirius Radio, then you pay the extra fee for that. If you want a battery car where you exchange batteries, you can get used to the idea that you don't own the battery.

Reply to
Onlooker

Clearly a different payment system would have to operate. Part of the payment for the swap could pay for battery replacement when they wear out. You'd buy a new electric car knowing the battery you have will always be of operating condition. Every time you swap it it's checked to see if it's past it's usable life, then chucked out if it is.

People who often go more than their car's range before returning home is not a limited market.

Reply to
James Wilkinson

And then next time you go in you get one that's better. They'd always give you one they considered "within spec", and you'd never have to pay for a new one yourself. That's the main reason I don't buy an electric car, because half the cost of the car is getting a new battery when it expires.

Reply to
James Wilkinson

You just need to adapt the business model. When you buy the car it's priced without a battery. The battery, you're paying for a swap battery, the dealer puts the first one in when you buy the car, meaning it's just one of the typical ones you'd get at one of the swap places. All the swap places would have to be of the same company or in some association so that they all have about the same age, quality batteries, etc.

Reply to
trader_4

Sure when the business model is that you never own the battery to begin with. The car can come without a battery, dealer puts in one of the recharge network batteries and off you go.

Reply to
trader_4

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