Call for a moderator of REC.WOODWORK

[Silvan]

You've been there too, I see. Bleah. Moderators suck.

[Larry Jaques]

On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 18:26:33 -0500, Tom Watson brought forth from the murky depths:

And maybe free of those bloody hayseuss freaks like Zoo?

[Larry Jaques]

Huh? The WW gods carry wood and have bench seats?!? Well, shiver me timbers!

[Larry Jaques]

On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 23:09:07 -0600, Dave Balderstone brought forth from the murky depths:

Lop off the legs, add a beak...oops, it turned into a parrot!

[Peter Ashby]

Lovely poem Frank thanks. I thought Noraid etc had gone the way of all things in the war on terrurrrr?

Peter

[Peter Ashby]

Which is why the church has changed its mind on: celibate priests, the truth of heliocentrism, papal infallibility, the divinity of Mary, and recently even evolution.

Meanwhile western society has decided that loving, consensual relationships between adults are just fine, not going to church on the sabbath will not result in terrible things, just more snuggle time with your consenting adult partner on Sunday mornings. Also that saying 'god will provide' does not alleviate the poverty caused by too many mouths to feed, so planning those mouths makes sense.

So iow the church does change its mind on what is right and true and as for moral, recent revelations on covering up paedophile priests, all around the world have rather dented any moral authority.

Peter

[Philski]

I don't need no steenking Taliban....

Plonk-O-Matic!

Philski

[Lazarus Long]

What do you think - two pieces joined with half laps, or three parts joined with M&T?

[Doug Miller]

Sorry, but you're quite mistaken. One at a time:

Priestly celibacy is a practice in certain parts of the Catholic Church, most predominantly in the Roman Rite. It forms *no*part* of Church *doctrine*, that is, the Church's teaching on faith and morals. Other Rites within the Catholic Church allow their priests to marry.

Heliocentrism likewise is not part of the Church's teaching on faith and morals, and never was.

The Church has *always* taught that the pronouncements of the Pope on matters of faith are infallible. That has never changed.

The Church neither teaches nor believes that Mary is in any way divine, and it never has.

Evolution, like heliocentrism, is not and never has been any part of the Church's teaching on faith and morals. And the only change in the Church's position on evolution has been from a "wait and see" attitude a hundred years ago, to the statement by the Pope a few years ago that evolution by natural selection is not in conflict with Church doctrine. Simply summarized, the Church's position in this regard is that the Bible says God created the earth and everything in it, but doesn't specify exactly how, nor how long it took. Those are questions of science, not of faith and morals.

-- Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

How come we choose from just two people to run for president and 50 for Miss America?

[Peter Ashby]

I have noticed that you have changed the terms under discussion. Nowhere above did you restrict the point to the church's teachin on faith and morals. If you are going to redefine the subject in order to defend something then I will have to conclude there is no point in engaging in debate with you.

Peter

[gabriel]

Seeing how this thread has "migrated" in topic, now I feel like we _do_ need a moderator!

[Doug Miller]

Some of your claims are outright false regardless (e.g. that the Church "changed its mind" in regard to the divinity of Mary, or on papal infallibility). I notice you snipped my comments in regard to those two.

You raised those claims in response to my statement that what's right and moral and true doesn't change -- that's the mission of the Church, to teach us what's right and moral and true. Anything outside of that, is outside the scope of the Church.

Such a debate is waaaay OT here anyway, and I think it's past time to give it a rest. If you'd like to continue by private email, my addy is in my sig below.

-- Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

How come we choose from just two people to run for president and 50 for Miss America?

[Scott Lurndal]

And what gives the [Catholic] church the right to define what is "moral and true"?

How were the Inquisition or the Crusades "moral and true"?

[Larry Blanchard]

You're just figuring that out?

[Brian Henderson]

The entire problem with this, at least in my opinion, is that you have one person who wants to preach in-channel, telling everyone else that he wants to control the content that everyone else sees because he's too lazy to learn how to use a killfile.

Does that about sum it up? ;)

[Brian Henderson]

This is a newsgroup about woodworking, hence other subject matter, be it religion or sexual practices, don't belong here. Now personally, I don't really care what anyone wants to believe, it's fine and dandy with me and I support their right to believe it, but you-know-who has been asked REPEATEDLY to change his SIG, stop spamming the newsgroup with his beliefs, etc. and he's ignored it entirely. That goes beyond simply wanting to believe and into wanting to preach, which should not be accepted without challenge.

I certainly didn't mean to imply that I didn't respect anyone's right to believe, I just don't respect one individuals methodolgy.

[Charlie Self]

Yup. There's madness in his method.

Charlie Self "Love is not the dying moan of a distant violin - it's the triumphant twang of a bedspring." S. J. Perelman

[Doug Miller]

Changing the *format* of his sig is IMO a legitimate request, and I hope he complies. Demanding that he change the *content* to suit others approaches uncomfortably close to censorship.

Despite what you say, Zoo isn't "spamming" the ng. And he's not about to change the *content* of his sig. In fact, complaining about the content is likely to make him all the more determined *not* to change it: "Blessed are you when they persecute and revile you, and utter every sort of calumny against you, for my sake" you see.

This ng isn't about politics, either. Are you as eager to complain about the blatantly political sigs of some of the regulars, as you are about Zoo's blatantly religious sig?

It *is* difficult to see how he hopes to win converts from amongst those whom he has alienated, I'll give you that.

-- Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

How come we choose from just two people to run for president and 50 for Miss America?

[Charlie Self]

Doug Miller agrees:

He probably went to the same school the spammers went to: piss people off enough times and they'll buy from you.

Charlie Self "Love is not the dying moan of a distant violin - it's the triumphant twang of a bedspring." S. J. Perelman

[Mark]

Interesting.

As a child I was taught that worshiping statues was wrong. I learned of Christians and other followers of the Holy Trinity smashing idols and other figures prayed to in savage and heathen cultures.

Then I go to a Catholic church and see people praying to statues. Specifically those of Mary.

And now you say she is in no way divine? Never has been?

I guess it's ok to pray to statues as long as their Catholic statues.

And lets not forget, celibacy came about to protect Church property.