TS Circuit -- Part 2

Did not even get winded! LOL

Reply to
Leon
Loading thread data ...

As the pissing contest goes on,,,

this is exactly what you said,

Since just about everything in the engine is emissions related they pretty much are forced to make them reliable over that period. If they can stay tuned for 50,000 miles they're going to be pretty durable.

Now I am going to say in a slightly different way, Fowled plugs and or clogged injectors do not result in a tuned engine. This can happen at any point in an engines life.

Perhaps we are saying the same but in a different way.

Yes you did exaggerate a bit and that is the problem with some of your comments. I'll take your word that your numbers about size and power are correct on the Ecoboost.

But consider that a 2.3 liter aluminum block Chevy engine, in 1972 produced 93 HP And failed miserably. Today triple that HP out of an aluminum block engine only 50% larger,

3.5 liter, and get 20% better gas mileage in town and on the highway.

Most Toyotas are driven 150K miles before being traded for the first time. that is 3~4 longer than most of those 2.3 liter engines Chevrolet produced in the early 70's. The Japanese have been turbo charging aluminum block engines for decades.

And FWIW the vast majority of pistons are aluminum, even in cast iron block engines.

Technology in metallurgy has come a very long way.

Reply to
Leon

Most pony cars aren't very fast. Standard engine in a Camaro is a 275 HP 2 liter turbo 4. "Big" engine is a 455 HP 6.2 V8. But there's also a separate "ZL1" model which has the 6.2 with a blower for 650 HP. That one costs more than an entry-level Corvette though.

Reply to
J. Clarke

On 1/21/2017 6:42 PM, snipped-for-privacy@notreal.com wrote: Snip

Hoods get damaged for a number of reasons and not always from a collision. Some one sits on the hood and dents it or the hinges do not bend properly and the hood bends at the hinge, more of a problem when hoods did not have prop rods or pneumatic pistons.

Hoods often get replaced because the labor to repair outweighs the labor and cost of the part replace, aluminum or steel, but not always, a stray golf ball ding, probably cheaper to repair. Any bolt on panel is going to be less expensive, labor wise, than one that an integral part of the body. If a quarter panel is damaged, steel or aluminum, it is going to be less expensive to repair with the assumption that the damage is less expensive to repair than to replace a quarter panel, which is quite expensive labor wise and seldom done.

Sometimes. Ask your local body shop how often they replace a dented quarter panel over repairing it. Quarter panels have to be cut away from floor pans, roof panels, and door jams. Then the new panel is fitted to the opening and welded in place. Less honorable body shops will charge you for all of this but not replace the sail panel, the upper section of the panel that connects to the roof panel, to save time and effort.

Well yeah, their primary function. ;~)

I am absolutely certain that different spray on liners have different expected life spans, including how think it goes on. Mine still worked like new, but after about 8 years you could just see the green paint in some of the low spots after 10 years in the sun.

Had it been twice as thick it may have not exposed the paint so soon.

Reply to
Leon

The standard engine for a Mustang is a 6cyl 227CID 300HP. It isn't particularly fast but it's not a slug, either. The car is pretty heavy, though (partularly the convertible).

The other options are an "EcoBoost" 4-cylinder 75CID 310HP, and a

302CID 425HP, and 315CID 526HP, eight. They should move.
Reply to
krw

Aluminum makes a great butt rest, I'm sure.

A steel panel will be much less susceptible to parking lot dings and way easier to pop out.

Reply to
krw

The vast majority of big v8's make it to 150K with out some repair. You hear of some that do but the ones you dont't hear about typically don't. ;~)

When working for Oldsmobile we had a new Cutlass, rear wheel drive, come into the shop. The complaint was oil consumption. So we topped off the oil and checked a week later. I do not recall the level but we immediately put the vehicle in the shop and began tearing down the engine. This was the old Buick design 3.8 V6.

Long story short, and we got the factory rep into the shop ASAP part way through removing the pistons, the engine was assembled with no oil rings on the pistons.

Regardless of how strong you feel that a metal is, if it is not engineered and built correctly it is not going to run long enough to make you proud. ;~)

Reply to
Leon

Here is one for you, I kinda got into an acceleration contest on the freeway with my son. I was driving my wife's 2012 V6 Camrey, and she was in the car. It went from about 45 mph getting on the freeway to about 90. He could not keep up. 84 Corvette 350, in pristine condition for a 30 year old vehicle.

Top speed would have been another matter. He does not like to be reminded. LOL

Reply to
Leon

should have said do not make it to 150K with out some repair.

Reply to
Leon

The 6 is being discontinued, just 4 and 8 cylinder variants for next year.

Reply to
FrozenNorth

Perhaps. but not guaranteed. It depends where the panel is hit and whether it stretches or not.

Reply to
Leon

At this point you're just being argumentative to be argumentative, a habit that you don't seem aware of.

So? Smaller engines get better mileage--that's physics.

How long does that engine last though?

Yeah, I had a non-turbo aluminum block Toyota that went through three engines in 30,000 miles. Sorry, but Toyota isn't any paragon of durability.

However lasting longer than a Vega engine which had an iron head on an aluminum block, a recipe for failure, isn't anything to brag about.

So what?

And maybe it's come a long enough way that the tiny little high-revving turbowonders that the government is forcing automakers to use today will last the same 300+ thousand miles as the ironblocks. When they've been around long enough to accumulate 300,000 miles get back to me.

You seem to have a childlike faith in engineers. I am one, and I know that we are not gods, our shit stinks, and we can't walk on water. Physics places limits on what engineers can do. When you make something smaller and lighter for the same power output with the same thermodynamic cycle, something has to give. Either the cost goes through the roof or durability suffers.

Reply to
J. Clarke

Reasonable. They weigh about the same and the Camry has 60 more horsepower.

Might not. Mine topped out at about 145. I understand that officially a 2012 V6 Camry was good for 143.

Reply to
J. Clarke

If by "repair" you mean the kind of stuff we used to do every 3000 miles or so back in the '60s.

Reply to
J. Clarke

That's a definite bummer. I don't trust the eco-boost engine. I've had my fill of turbos.

Reply to
krw

Right. At least half of engineering is economics. It not only has to work but it also has to be affordable/marketable.

Reply to
krw

Pot, Kettle

Apparently with Toyota in excess of 150K.

Well some people take better care of their vehicles than others, and there is a lemon in every basket. But you would be hard pressed to find a more reliable longer lasting vehicle than Toyota when comparing apples to apples.

Is any one bragging?

The "aluminum", in the piston, that you are so afraid to admit to being a good material takes more punishment than any cast iron block. It is exposed to tremendous heat and absorbs direct hit explosions billions of times during its life cycle.

Shall I get back to you now? It is already happening on a daily basis. Commercial turbo charged diesel engines. You done see them here but they are India.

No, I have experience with dealing with engines as a profession.

Well that is what they have been saying for decades and the limit has not yet been reached. Open your eyes.

To you I say, as I told my son a time or two. Can't never could do anything.

Reply to
Leon

Yes! plus a load more torque.

I read 130, governor limited. To tell you the truth I think Toyota may be stating a specific under rated hp much like Chevrolet did in the 60's.

Reply to
Leon

No not maintenance.

Reply to
Leon

Leon, that Toyota is the only car I've ever had that experienced an engine failure. If it was lack of maintenance then why didn't I get the same results with every other car I've had?

Are you autistic or something? Have you never heard that expression before?

aluminum, even in cast iron

Leon, you are putting words in my mouth, a bad habit. I have never said that aluminum wasn't a "good material". But it works better for some purposes than others, just as is true of all other materials. Rubber is a great material for tires but it's not so good for crankshafts. Engineers pick the material for the job, we don't just say "iron good, aluminum bad" and make everything out of one or the other on ideological grounds.

Pistons don't have tightly fitted steel rings sliding up and down them thousands of times a minute. Cylinder walls do. Put aluminum pistons in an iron engine and the clearances tighten as it warms. Put iron pistons in an aluminum engine and they loosen as it warms. Pistons are reciprocating mass--the lighter they are the less stress on the system.

Your "direct exposure to explosions" is only a tiny part of the engineering picture.

long way.

What planet to you inhabit? Commercial turbo charged diesel engines were in common use in the US when I was a small child.

A 13 liter 600 horsepower engine that weighs more than most cars is not a "tiny little high- revving turbowonder".

engineers.

So tell us about your personal experience with tiny high-revving turbowonders. I asked you do do that before and you babbled about truck engines in India. Do you live in India? If not how do you from your personal experience know anything about those engines?

And your personal experience clearly does not extend to commercial truck engines in the US.

Nobody but you is on about "limits". Put enough boost on it and a chainsaw engine could power New York for about a nanosecond before it self destructed. You don't seem to grasp the concept that everything in engineering is a tradeoff. You can have light, strong, or cheap. Pick two.

And all the "can" in the world won't stop the tide.

But that comment clearly marks you as a pointy- haired boss and not one of the dilberts who actually has to do the work.

Reply to
J. Clarke

HomeOwnersHub website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.