TS Circuit -- Part 2

[Leon]

It was less expensive to replace her hood but this is not true in all cases. All minor fender benders are expensive. Paint work is expensive. If a rubber bumper/facia is involved you can count on $2K +

I'm not saying that aluminum is less or equally as expensive to repair, just that it can be repaired by your corner BS.

Spray-on bed liners stick to paint for the most part, it really does not matter what is under the paint.

And spray on bed liners do not prevent damage other than scratches in the paint and surface rust. A spray on bed liner offers no help with the same type damage shown in the Chevy commercial.

I currently have a Toyota branded slip in bed liner, I thought I wanted to get rid of it and go with a spray on again but 10 years later it is still doing fine. ;~)

I had a spray-on on my Silverado. It looked like black wrinkle paint. And held up well to wear. AND it stayed cool in the dead of summer, it never go hot. BUT it seemed to evaporate... it slowly disappeared/ became thin, and not from abrasion. It simply developed thin spots between the wrinkle high spots and the paint began to appear again. These spots seemed be where it had the most sun exposure. BUT it did last 10 years.

[Ed Pawlowski]

There is a learning curve. Having worked with aluminum tooling for the past 47 years I don't see it as a problem, it is easily repaired. It was not that long ago shops bitched about them foreign cars with metric bolts. Local garage could not fix them.

[J. Clarke]

Remember that the government requires that all cars sold in the US pass emissions for 50,000 miles with any repairs to emission systems in that time paid by the manufacturer. Since just about everything in the engine is emissions related they pretty much are forced to make them reliable over that period. If they can stay tuned for 50,000 miles they're going to be pretty durable.

The thing that worries me is the government- forced trend to smaller and smaller engines with blowers to get the necessary power.

[Leon]

One would hope but cheap gas with no detergents or bad gas can fowl plugs and clog injectors, and that is not covered after the 5 year or

50K limitation of coverage.

The government is forcing better gas mileage. The manufacturer chooses the best way for them to achieve that. The Hybrids seem to be a popular alternative. We will see how the turbo and supercharged engines hold up long term.

But that said, my wife's 2012 Camry V6 gets an average of 25 MPG in town and 32 on the highway and it has 268 HP. There is no need for more power than that. It pulls quite strongly and quickly up to 100 MPH. I understand that its top speed is governor limited to 130 MPH.

[J. Clarke]

Geez, you gotta be a kid if you think that fouled plugs after 50,000 miles is a sign of "lack of durability".

And I haven't had any problems with injectors on my Jeep in 20 years, despite using the cheapest gas I can find most of the time.

Physics is physics. You aren't going to get 50 mpg out of an ironblock 427, not no way, not no how.

So? When you're getting that 268 out of a turbo

3 cylinder get back to me. 25 MPG is not enough in the modern world. Mr. Obama's standards require 60 mpg. My motorcycle won't do that.

[dpb]

On 01/21/2017 1:15 PM, J. Clarke wrote: ...

Odds are pretty good I think those'll get backed off here shortly...perhaps not, but I'm guessing likely.

[dpb]

On 01/21/2017 9:35 AM, Leon wrote: ...

I guess I've just been lucky...we've had nothing but Chevy on the farmstead since grandfather's first truck (1928) and have never had any major engine or transmission repairs on any that I can recall since being old enough to know most of what happened since the late-50s/early

60s. That'd include something like 20+ pick'em ups and a dozen or so medium and heavy duty bobtails.

Personally, I've had almost exclusively GM automobiles and with only the single exception of one '84 Olds, I've never had a _major_ repair on any of them, either. It had a newly-released transmission that failed early, but was warranty replacement and the subsequent went the remaining 130K or so put on it.

Folks drove Buick exclusively from 1960 on and there also recall only one that ever had any real issues with...one, don't recall the year but many years ago, long before the 3.8L cross-mount FWD, would lose the water pump after long road trips. Never failed until after returned and it had gone back to normal just daily to/from town trips but seemed like every time after a really long trip sequence it'd go out. Dad finally got made and traded it; the shop mechanic bought it and replaced the pump "one more time" and ended up driving it for years and years and never replaced it again... :)

Anyways, I'm pretty much happy w/ GM...not enough trouble over 60 yr or so to give me any pause whatsoever. Altho I don't like all the gadgetry on them or anything new that's not vendor-specific.

[Leon]

No, I did not say that, I simply stated that plugs and injectors can be damaged with poor gas. You said that if it lasts 50K it will likely not fail. These are wear items and go bad eventually. FWIW I have not changed plugs in my last 4 vehicles and all have had mileage closer to

100K than 50K. And despite the 5 or 50K emissions warranty he was past the 5 year mark. But something beyond a manufacturers control is not covered by the emission warranty if proof is evident. Vehicles come new with a bumper to bumper warranty these days but that does not cover break downs due to products that do not meet factory specs.

That does not mean anything, my BIL had to have the injectors, and fuel pumps replaced before 50K because of bad/cheap gas. He always filled up at the same station. That was on an Accord and a Crown Vic.

Did anyone say that you would? You are blowing this out of proportion. And FWIW the same was said about getting 30+ MPG out of an engine producing in excess of 150 hp.

Well he is gone now, not to worry.

FWIW engine size does not dictate mileage or power, that is a misconception that seemed to be true in the 70's but is no longer true.

Where there is a will there is a way.

[Leon]

No reason to switch brands if you are happy. It delivers what you have come to expect. And like I mentioned I was GM guy and retired after selling and servicing GM products for 20+ years. I really got tired of the politics of dealing with the factory and angry customers coming back to have the same thing repaired over and over. I first switched to Isuzu, a brand that we sold, and it was equal to GM in reliability. Then I/we went to Acura, Honda, and finally Toyota. Higher in price but very dependable and trouble free compared to the vehicles we have had in the past.

[Markem]

Audi has been putting out aluminum cars for awhile, so the body shops to fix an aluminum car or truck are around. As far as protecting the bed, a nice piece of vinyl should do.

[Ed Pawlowski]

Yeah, probably by Tuesday. Some new regs have already been halted.

[J. Clarke]

This is not productive because you are not addressing the points raised, you are twisting them to suit your worldview.

I don't want a powerful fast car, I want a car that isn't going to give me trouble for 20 years. I know from long experience that normally aspirated iron block engines will do that. I have no evidence that turbocharged aluminum block engins of 1/10 the displacement but producing the same power will last nearly as long.

Now, maybe you have extensive experience as a mechanic with the longevity of massively boosted high RPM 3 cylinder engines in cars, if so please share.

[J. Clarke]

One hopes that at least some sanity comes out of this.

[Leon]

On 1/21/2017 2:57 PM, Markem wrote: Snip

I did not realize Audi was using the much aluminum but thinking back, probably VW too. Wa had a 2000 Passat and it got a ding in the parking lot on the passengers finder just over the wheel opening. I did not notice the bent sheet metal until I heard the tire rubbing wite the slightest bump. I stopped on the side of the road and easily pulled it back with one hand on my first pull. Probably an Aluminum fender.

[Leon]

I simply indicated that vehicles do have problems past the emission warranty. You stated that if they make it past that point they are probably good to go.

Well those engines, normally aspirated iron block, are disappearing fast and I have not seen any 3 cylinder 45 cid engines that you are talking about.

I do not have extensive experience as a mechanic although probably much more than most people that are not mechanics. I do have extensive service management experience where I dealt with the repairs and warranty claims and the customers and the factory reps.

[Markem]

Nascar fix, did you lose a lap?

[krw]

It'll take a while. The Donald could sign an executive order today but it would take a year, if then, to change anything. The President can only direct the appropriate agencies to look into changing regulations. He can't do it.

[krw]

But fender benders are far more likely to bend fenders than hoods. If you've bent a hood, you're probably in the $10K territory.

By replacing parts.

They also keep stuff from sliding around, saving the surface.

Didn't have that problem on my '00 Ranger. The liner looked brand new when I got id of it (in '13). Did it again on my '13 150. I put a tonneau cover on it last summer (out of sight out of mind), so the liner isn't exposed to the elements anymore.

[J. Clarke]

That is not what I stated. What I stated was that if the engine was good enough to make it to that point without having a wrench turned on it it has to be a pretty decent design.

Ford ecoboost. I exaggerate a bit but they're getting 123 HP out of a 60 cubic inch turbo 3 in the Focus.

[Ed Pawlowski]

My last Sonata was a 2.0 turbo. Shocked a Camero driver that I stayed right beside him no matter how hard he pushed the pedal. I have no idea how well it would be at 150,000 or more miles though compared to a big V-8.