OT: Democracy in Action

[Swingman]

Damned shame that after almost 30 years nothing has been accomplished, overall, to improve the situation.

As the parent of an Eagle Scout, IIRC, I'm sure you are painfully aware of the situation and took the same kind of steps aforementioned.

All one has to do is take a look at the sorry conditions of the school system in Detroit, MI.

To put the blame for that fiasco on anything other than progressive educational dogma, which has been the ONLY guiding factor in Detroit for the past 40 years, is patently ridiculous.

... and true to form, Rachel Maddow, on MSNBC the other night, blamed the sorry state of the Detroit schools, and in particular the closing of a High School for pregnant girsl in Detroit, on "conservatives"!

Go farking figure ...

We don't have a chance with both extremes trumpeting that kind of totally irresponsible journalism.

(Yes ... I watch MSNBC nightly just to get a picture of both extremes, I already know what divisive BS is being slobbered in the public trough from the other extreme)

[Swingman]

Trust me, if I thought we could get away with it, my people would currently be talking to Leon's people, non stop!! :)

There are damn few twenty something males in this culture today that aren't total doofuses ...

(My initial thought when meeting most of them is to reach over, grab them by the collar, and slap the shit out of 'em to start as my introduction)

[Han]

Swingman wrote in news:2PSdnf8lrJZO2NjTnZ2dnUVZ [e-mail]:

Yeah, I'm wondering who my 15 year-old granddaughter is going to bring home ... Bet you'though it's a geek ...

[Bill]

I agree with you that "parental involvement" is key. You and your wife were obviously were very thoughtful parents!

As far as the balking, I don't know anyone who enjoys more legal involvement in his or her life. Helping a student is one thing, helping a student with a lawyer standing behind him or her feels like another--even if it shouldn't. It might feel like having a police officer drive with you to work everyday. In short, the balking was probably, hopefully, just human nature. I think in truth, some teachers give his or her all, and some give much less--just like people you'll find in every profession.

I think it really is quite fair to say that a 7:00-3:00 job as a middle or high school teacher can be highly-taxing. I see what it does to my wife... BTW, I know from her experience that student performance is high (off the charts, really), where parental involvement is very high. And much lower where parents, perhaps due to their concern about putting food on the table, are not as involved. This raises a whole can of worms as to how to "fix the educational system".... Maybe the educational system begins long before the student enters a school?

Maybe we should require people to get some training before they have children? Would there be any political objection (ha! ha! ha!)?

[Bill]

I didn't look it up. By "doofuses" do you mean glued to their technology, have too much moose in their hair, that they are pre-occupied with video games, or something else? I don't know enough

20-something males to offer much of an opinion.

[Han]

Bill wrote in news: [e-mail]:

I've always been in favor of something in the drinking water that would prevent pregnancy. After you get your license to have a kid, you can get the antidote.

[Leon]

Darn instead of Damn

Doofus instead of Dipshit

[Doug Miller]

You do recall correctly. I even have a bumper sticker on my car: "I'm proud of my Eagle Scout".

And yes, we did. His older brother went to public school for the first two years, and part of second grade -- after that, it was Catholic schools all the way. AJ, the Eagle Scout, is attending a Catholic college too (his choice, but obviously we're pleased).

The story of how and why we switched Ken (#1 son) from public to Catholic school is ... well, the short version is that his second-grade teacher was completely incompetent, and the school administration refused to do anything about it -- assistant principal told my wife, when she requested they transfer our son to a different classroom, that "if we did that, then every parent would be asking for a transfer." Yeah, well, that oughta tell you something about that teacher, ya think? So we transferred him right out of the whole school district.

We were fortunate to be able to afford to do that, but seeing the results, the sacrifice was worth it. Both boys wound up with very generous college scholarships. Ken's in law school now.

[krw]

Then starve, and stop whining.

When you propose a "solution" you really do have to look at the likely results.

It has to be done that way so parents can choose the schools. Without that choice (competition) the system cannot change.

[Swingman]

63% of the student body in HISD in 2010 were "At Risk" students! 63% of over 200,000 students!!!

Where are the parents??

Sheeesh ... this tells you immediately what the culture is going to be like in ten years, yet folks continue to bop thru life with the idea that "Happy Days" is what the current educational system is like ... the reality is that much of it is a cesspool of total and demonstrable incompetence.

Just imagine what the children of these 63% are going to be like!

I chose to send my daughter to public schools because I'm paying for it and I was bound and determined to make it work ... but damn if it wasn't an eye opener, and a lot of hard work to boot.

I was raised Catholic but always had a great respect for the Jews of this country because they heretofore always sent their kids to public schools in the US and, as a result, made those schools better for all concerned with their strong family ties and parental involvement ... that is no longer true. Most of my Jewish friend's children, of the same age as my youngest daughter, went to private schools.

Given the choice, there is no way I would go through that again.

Due to political correctness, and to a large measure progressive thinking (if you can call it that), we have squandered the only legacy that really counts for the future ... an education for our children.

And, for those who think an education at the much vaunted universities in America is worth more than a warm bucket of spit these days, open your eyes with this:

[Ed Pawlowski]

"Doug Miller" wrote

Depends on where you live. Our kids went to catholic school in Philly. When we moved to CT, we enrolled them in the catholic school here. Big mistake. Got them out before there minds rotted from lack of use. While the public school was still not up the our standards, it was much better than the catholic school. There are also two private schools in the area, but tuition is more than most colleges.

[Leon]

>>

When Bryan was choosing between colleges he was most interested in Rice and UofH. His HS counselor said that he had the grades for Rice but he would most likely be passed over for a "non-white", foreign student, or female. We drove around and through the campus prior to that meeting and I noticed a similar mix in the student body.

I early on told Bryan that the University did not matter as far as career was concerned so much as what you actually learned. I did tell him that an Ivy league school was going to help him get his first job but after that his work ethic and reputation was going to trump any school he attended.

When he was interning with KPMG he heard mention that they typically choose more students from UofH over UT and A&M because of their experience. Most all of the UofH students had at least part time jobs where as the more privlidged students that simply went to school had no work experience and had to be taught "everything".

Totally agree with that article you posted the link to, especially the Honors College comments, The students get first pick at the professors and have much smaller more personal classes.

[krw]

The military. More expensive than it needs to be, but it is run well. Other than that, well... That's the reason government _must_ be greatly limited.

Money isn't everything. How many here could make more money doing something else?

That's the problem. You, and too many others, are looking for government to help. It's *not* going to.

Yes, they should have gotten a *lot* more.

[krw]

>>>>>

Right, but that first job is far more important than the college. But the college gets that first job.

That's the reason I got my first job. I worked as a technician for the university while I was in college. The hiring manager liked people who worked over people who study. ;-)

I did get first pick of classes in my major, not because of honors but rather I worked for the department (had to schedule classes and work). Yes, it was a big perk. It allowed me to get the professors I wanted.

[Leon]

Switch to Chrome

[Swingman]

It's hard to believe that 70% of the undergraduate classes at most universities are now taught by outsourced, "paid-by-the-course", adjunct professors!

A sad state of affairs ... this corporate model of teaching was unheard of in my day.

Might as well get some of that "discount knowledge from the local community college", if it's the same folks doing the teaching!

Hell, at this rate it won't be long before Haji's teaching physics at Harvard ... from a call center in New Delhi.

[HeyBub]

Chrome? You mean the nascent browser produced by Google?

Not a chance. If it were worth beans, Microsoft would have bought it.

And don't think my evaluation is biased just because I own a shit-load of Microsoft stock.

[Leon]

And teeching the neu Inglish so that we mite understand hem,

[Leon]

Geeez leon.....

[Han]

Swingman wrote in news:kLKdnZe73Zh_I9vTnZ2dnUVZ [e-mail]:

Very few full professors were teaching when my kids went to university (Columbia) 15 or more years ago. Even when I went (Holland, almost 50 years ago), only some were. Interestingly, some were giants in their fields. Now if I could only remember their names ...