OT - Basic Skills in Today's World

[Lobby Dosser]

And the rationing that goes with it. Lots of folks around now who don't remember those halcyon days of 1972.

[Larry Blanchard]

I wrote some software for a roll grinding machine once. I pointed out that I thought a good machinist could do as well or better than the machine. I was told that they knew that, but all their machinists were retiring soon and they just couldn't find replacements that knew anything. So they imported an expensive machine to do the job.

Note that they had to import the grinder. They also had to import the rolling mill the rolls were for. Nobody in the US could/would build such a mill.

[Larry Blanchard]

There is a difference between a forest and a tree farm :-).

[Larry Blanchard]

Amen! I have fond memories of standing INSIDE the engine compartment t= o work on an old inline six cylinder. Those days are, alas, gone forever. I = now need to be a contortionist to work on a motorcycle.

--=20 It's turtles, all the way down

[pipedope]

But how does it compare to, say, 1400?

On top of that how much is actual forest and how much is mono culture tree farm land.

michael

[Koz]

You can go on....comparing virgin forests of 1400 to what is there today by comparing acres in forest is apples to oranges in the worst sense. It's like saying the city park is a "forest" because there are trees in it.

You have to compare board feet of harvestable timber as well as issues such as forest diversity and health, watershed necessities (can't cut it if your towns water is collected there) and whether that harvestable timber has any reasonable value (Lots of maple in Washington but mostly only good for fire wood), "green" load..as in how much a tree type contributes to air cleaning and oxygen production (a cactus is considered a tree but has a low green load), etc... The issue is far more complex than a right-wing radio sound bite.

The US Forest Service, by the way, had it's ass kicked a few years back for calling large tracts of land above the timberline in elevation as harvestable forest lands. Games people play.

Koz

[hot-ham-and-cheese]

Of course not. Don't be so silly.

If not a welfare recipient, then a welfare advocate.

Mmmm I don't know. Winston seemed to want to argue it.

We do? Gosh, I guess I didn't need to put 160,000 miles on a Geo Metro when I could have enjoyed driving Blazer? My home is 1600 sqft instead of 2000 to 2200 that seems to be the "starter" home of today.

Yep, all those conservative hispanic, moslem, hindu, and chinese "wingers" keep growing the population. No go back and do your homework before you say something else as stupid.

[hot-ham-and-cheese]

You tell us...

You have a problem with trees being replanted for future cuts?

[hot-ham-and-cheese]

If the canopy coverage is greater than 50%, it is forest.

Perhaps. Is it private land?

Then how will the lefties ever understand it?

With GIS all things are possible.

And the Fish And Wildlife Service DIDN'T have its ass kicked for falsifying the range extent of a lynx for the purpose of denying sportsmen access to millions of acres of BLM land.

[Edwin Pawlowski]

Last time I changed oil was in May, 1991. I had about 3000 miles on my new Regal. It was not easier, quicker, or more convenient. It was a royal PITA that was never repeated. I can come and go as I please at work so time is not a problem. I just go over to Bill's and pay $25. Yes, I can take a look around under the car while is on the lift, even when it is 10 degrees outside and snow is falling. I have no plans to ever crawl under a car and change oil again even if a new model is easier.

Raise your own livestock, grow your own veggies and generate your own electricity?

[Joe Gorman]

Someone thought rather a lot of that 'rant'

[Charlie Self]

Hah. I have a friend still doing that, mostly, out west where there is more space. But he's about the same age I am, and is now looking to sell his land, the house he and his first ex built, and move closer to civilization as the creaks of age become louder than the fears of youth and middle age. He's as self-sufficient as anyone I've ever met, but is smart enough to realize that it's time to get a tad closer to medical help, among other things.

Self-sufficiency in today's world is pretty much illusory. Someone still had to supply his batteries for the wind-power set up; he had to locate the motorcycles he rebuilt to make money and buy the parts to repair them; even the fence lines he worked on to make spare cash had to belong to someone.

[J. Clarke]

That was mostly politicians in Doing Something mode. I doubt that there was any real effect on gasoline consumption.

[Robert Sturgeon]

If he gets to define the terms any way he likes, he can prove anything -- anything at all.

Forests are forests, regardless of whether they are tree farms or "virgin" forests.

-- Robert Sturgeon Summum ius summa inuria.

[Larry Blanchard]

And a car is a car, regardless of whether it's a Yugo or a Rolls.

[dcaster]

Like anything the more one does something the easier it gets. Changing the oil is the same way.

I live about 7 miles to any commercial establishments, although there is a garage about three miles away. But it is on the fringe of a residential area and there are no other businesses within easy walking distance. So for me to take my truck somewhere to get the oil changed is a royal PITA. Also note that I have a truck. Way easier than changing the oil on a car. Lots more room all around the engine. So to change the oil, I pull out a couple of ramps and drive the front wheels on them. That really gives lots of room to get under with a creeper. I have an old stainless steel container that the oil drains into. I have the right size oil filter wrench and a funnel to drain the oil from the stainless container back into the now empty oil bottles. So I can change the oil in about the same time as a garage can. Don't save much money, but do save the time to drive somewhere and back.

If I had a Buick, I would take it somewhere.

I do grow some veggies, and cut firewood to heat the house and shop. In the PNW it is hard to compete with commercial hydroelectric power.

Dan Bainbridge Island, Wa.

[Lobby Dosser]

1962 Chevy! Used to climb in there to do the timing.

Well, changing the oil filter from above on a Chrysler slant six was not fun.

>

[R. Lander]

(source?)

Since 1900 perhaps, but not compared to the pinnacle of replanting efforts several decades ago. We cut down trees to build more homes each day. There's no physical way a population can be kept growing without using more timber unless steel framework supplants most of it. The forest industry puts out smooth propaganda, but renewability is being lost to population growth in most places. They plant tree farms at higher density and try to call it "more acreage."

1926 to 1990)

R. Lander

[Upscale]

And also, what kind of acreage is it? Old growth trees of hundreds of years ago, certainly don't measure up to what is grown today. Same acreage maybe, but certainly not same quality, durability or foliage.

[R. Lander]

Are you talking about a few plots here and there? Communism was as bad or worse for nature than unfettered capitalism. Where are you getting your information?

"Russian experts who have spent five years mapping the forests say much of what is left is in jeopardy.....researchers say what little is left of the forests is at risk, as the parts likeliest to attract exploitation have no protection under federal or local law."

R. Lander