Leon wrote in news:7Jidncsm5fAjHv snipped-for-privacy@giganews.com:
As I recall, and I haven't seen this discussed in years, it was spindown time. Dado sets take longer to spin down than a normal blade, and apparently European Regulators can't wait that long. Maybe the saw made that whirring noise dado sets make and they need to change their pants?
Puckdropper
Check again. EU regs require that the saw spin down in 10 seconds or less, usually accomplished with a brake of some kind. Since the manufacturer usually wants to use the cheapest brake that will do the job, they barely put in enough brake to spin down a regular blade in that time, so put a dado on it and it runs over. The manufacturers address this by putting a short spindle on the saw so a dado can't be attached. One suspects that Festool, being Festool, would just stick the brakes off a Mercedes on the thing.
I have to wonder, not that I'm cynical. . . We have this patent, but is it not a very good one and we could lose a court battle, so instead, lets give it away and get a lot of free publicity as an industry leader.
Could be, however earlier Volvo did the same with the three-point seat belt.
On 07/09/2017 2:27 PM, Leon wrote: ...
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All the shapers I've got are 3X or so the rpm of of TS...even the low range on the 2-speed is 7,000 rpm. A 10" TS manufacturer's max tip speed will limit RPM to something under 5,000 to 5,500 iirc w/o looking up specific numbers.
Anyways, shapers run at quite a lot higher rpm than do TS's owing to the tip diameter of cutters being smaller so need it for the tip speed.
Think routers; 20 to 27,000 ain't unusual for the same reason; the router bit diameter is much smaller so needs to spin faster to compensate.
There's quite a lot of mass on a 1" shaper spindle w/ a 6" panel-raiser on it...it'd take a sizeable EM to shut it down quickly enough to make and difference on the accident scenario methinks... :)
Spin down time would not seem to be so as they do allow large massive dado blades.
OH! Nevermind. I was under the impression that they ran really slow, not just much slower than a router. Thanks for pointing that out.
Yeah I remember that now, IIRC I mentioned on a post, several posts ago, that tip speed was important on any tool/cutter. IIRC the discussion was why you could not put a router bit in a drill press and get satisfactory results.
Totally agreed! Your lights would dim, probably. ;~)
My take on it is that the SawStop patents are about to run out and Festool just picked up another good product line, probably on the cheap (because of the above).
\ Why would Festool come out with a table saw. They like SawStop so much that they bought the company. They don't need to develop anything.
But dado's are being put on the Euro saws. LARGE massive dado's.
This German saw will cut up to 20 mm dado's. Check the specs.
This video shows the massive dado blades.
Now maybe these are Americanized, but you have to think that dado's are being cut in some way with out it being a two machine process. Most high end Euro saws offer multiple width scoring blades to match the width of the dado.
And maybe the dado issue is for non industrial use.
I don't doubt that there is some issue with dado blades in Europe but the videos and specs seem to indicate that they can be cut on the Euro built saws. And the blades are not thin.
Good Point AND if every one is using this design they cannot be blamed for using an industry standard. Or the patent is about to run out.
That's a really neat dado blade. It's for felder (UK) saws only?
Until now.
Perhaps not "remain relevant", rather "grow". What further portable (hand operated) power tools can they make that they don't now?
What he said. Grow or die.
Leon, nobody said that it was impossible to stop a dado in 10 seconds. Only that it takes more than a bargain-basement brake. That saw you're looking at costs about three times as much as a maxed-out Sawstop so has it occurred to you that it might have just a _little_ better brake than, say, a $500 buck Axminster?
Some quick GoogleFu reveals that the knot of patents that cover different a spects of the current SawStop device expire anywhere from 4 to 7 years, but there is even a lot of uncertainty of the actual expirations. With the Ga ss' interlocking his patents, no telling when the actual expiration date wo uld be. Since I have read at other sources (than the internet!) that Gass has deliberately intertwined his patents and innovations to protect them as long as possible, no telling when the actual technology would fall into pu blic domain.
I still think that Festool has a deeper business plan, one that will use th e current technology (and anything ancillary Gass has been working on) to d evelop other tools and markets. If they are working on a new large wheel bu ffer (don't just think cars size) that has a large spinning head, wouldn't it be nice to have it cut off immediately if a shirt or glove was caught in it? How nice would it be to have a blade stop technology on a joiner?
Not thinking they have purchased the company and its technology to simply g ive it away to be popular with their own competition. TTS already owns a d iverse set of companies that they have integrated some aspects like the Sys tainers built by Tanos and their high tech shop vac built by Cleantec into their catalogue. Doubtful this is a Christmas gift for all Festool's compe tition and us.
Probably just a smart move from a very well run company.
Robert
telling when the actual technology would fall into public domain.
But will Sawstop technology work on a buffer? And on a jointer I think it would have to react a lot faster than it does on a table saw.
It's pretty easy to unwind them. The basic patents are the important ones and they're about to run out.
I still think Festool is just looking to move into the stationary tool market and SawStop was a prime target for them.
I don't think they were looking for the technology at all.
We can agree on that part.
I don't know if the pinned mount is unique to Felder or if it's an EU standard, however I suspect that it's necessary to keep the dado set from coming loose when the brake hits. Note the spindown time--well under the
10 seconds that the EU allows.
Are the pins really necessary? Couldn't that sort of design be used in the US? I think it's really slick - a perfect cross of a wobbler and stacked set.
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