Flesh Sensing Kapex, Track Saws, Domino ??

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Oh, crap! Now I'm going to have to sell all my Festools! ;-)

Reply to
krw

Looks like one of the competitors that appreciates the technology took Gass seriously.

I'm betting that we might see more tools from Festool that might have this type technology. IIRC the current Festool jigsaw was delayed because of a feature that was not right for the American consumer.

This all assuming that they bought the rights to this technology also.

Reply to
Leon

Once the Germans get sick of Gass and give him the sack I might consider buying one. But not until Gass is out of the company.

Reply to
J. Clarke

Feeling emotional today?

Reply to
Leon

Grow up.

Reply to
J. Clarke

If you make your decisions based on emotion, maybe you should grow up.

Reply to
Leon

Interesting that you found it appropriate to change the conversation from Sawstop to me. Do you have a crush on me or something?

Reply to
J. Clarke

Probably a couple of different things at play here. I don't know Gass, nev er met him, but he has a reputation for his abrasive behavior. I don't see much commentary about the actual technological achievements, but it could be he has taken this as far as his own talent can take it. While furthering his own agenda he has no doubt sunk countless hours and dollars into defen ding the blade stop patents.

A fresh infusion of money, a team of exacting engineers with new ideas and energy could be a real boon to SawStop. Plus, a billion dollar company wit h a hard of lawyers will be defending the SawStop technology as they have a ggressively done with their own products.

My hope was that Gass would run out of gas and start licensing the technolo gy and its ancillary developments. With their teams of patent attorneys an d the own marketing plans, no doubt in my mind that TTS will guard, protect and hoard the technology until they no longer can.

We may see something else that performs the same task, but I would readily bet we don't see the SawStop technology outside of the TTS stable of produc ts.

Robert

Reply to
nailshooter41

He was always happy to license it. The trouble is he wanted a bizarre royalty arrangement--3% of wholesale initially, going to 8% if most of the industry adopted the technology.

I dunno. European companies have a reputation for being fairly altruistic with regard to safety technologies.

Reply to
J. Clarke

never met him, but he has a reputation for his abrasive behavior. I don't see much commentary about the actual technological achievements, but it co uld be he has taken this as far as his own talent can take it. While furthe ring his own agenda he has no doubt sunk countless hours and dollars into d efending the blade stop patents.

and energy could be a real boon to SawStop. Plus, a billion dollar company with a hard of lawyers will be defending the SawStop technology as they ha ve aggressively done with their own products.

nology and its ancillary developments.

Just a question, not an attack:

If Festool is indeed altruistic regarding the technology and allows other t o incorporate it in their own tools - at what you would consider a fair royalty arrangeme nt - would you still refuse to buy Festool products based solely on the fact that Gass is part of the company?

Reply to
DerbyDad03

Some will always make decisions based on non pertinent emotions. It's the only way they know how to choose.

The cost to offer a feature on a product is inconsequential if your customer is willing to pay for it. Proven time and again with the success of each new line of saws that SS has introduced.

Given SS's success and dominance, in a relative short amount of time, and the obvious disappearance of some brands and their respective models in woodworking businesses, I would say that not paying for the licenses and offering their customers a choice to to buy this safety technology was far more costly than the license.

Before SS I recall being able to touch and feel, at local stores, the larger DeWalt hybrid TS's, Hitachi contractor saws, Powermatic contractor saws, Delta Unisaws and contractor saws, ShopSmith multifunction machines, Steel City table saws. Today in the our country's 4th largest city/metro area your obvious choices have shrunk to SawStop, Powermatic, and Jet if you want to touch and feel a non bench top sized TS.

In the past 15 or so years, with the introduction of each new model/class of TS, those brands/models listed above have one by one disappeared from local retailers floors.

I would say that Festool was pretty smart with the acquisition of SawStop. Obviously more costly than just buying a license to offer the technology but also an investment into remaining relevant.

Reply to
Leon

So Leon, are you ready for your next Domino to have a steel spike explosively shoot into the motor armature and the bit get vaporized by a laser when your finger gets too close to the cutter? 8^)

I'll be very interested if Festool does come out with a table saw. Not necessarily to buy one, but to see what innovative features they might come up with. The TS has not changed much in the past century beyond a raise/tilt system and a fence, what truly game changing feature could possibly be next (besides more safety stuff)?

-BR

Reply to
Brewster

As long as he personally was profiting from the purchase, yes. The sort of behavior in which he has engaged should not be encouraged.

If Festool does as Mercedes did with four-wheel electronically controlled anti-skid and makes it available to the industry at no charge then I would consider such a tool.

Understand, my problem with Gass is that he has been seeking a government- imposed non-regulated monopoly. This is just plain not acceptable.

Reply to
J. Clarke

Why? The only market in which SawStop has made any inroads is table saws. Festool does not make table saws, so they don't even try to play in that particular market.

It is more likely that they have decided to expand their product line to include stationary tools than it is that they thought they needed to "remain relevant".

Reply to
J. Clarke

LOL. It would probably be beneficial but not so much as with a TS or BS.

The design of plate joiners and the Domino make them pretty safe. BUT the Kapex could certainly benefit.

My guess is that Festool would/could probably introduce this technology to their Kapex, maybe their planers... I doubt that they would want to start making a Festool TS with this feature since they now own a company that does make TS's. Festool seems, at least here, to focus on the portable power tools. The TS is less portable with the exception of the job site contractors saw. I guess Festool could share technologies and maybe offer a better fence other than the Beis clone. Something like the old Delta Unifence comes to mind. Maybe not a wobble but perhaps an oscillating blade option for dados.

Reply to
Leon

Agreed that Mercedes has shared some safety technologies. BUT I recently was doing some research on a few Mercedes models. They state that they have hundreds of safety patents. I read that as safety features that they are not willing to share freely. So like ANY business there is a limit as to what they are willing to share.

Reply to
Leon

On 07/09/2017 11:23 AM, Leon wrote: ...

I can't see much need at all on planer unless you're thinking of handheld jobbers (which I guess is all Festool would have, anyway) so maybe.

I think the biggest safety spot albeit not so much in use any more w/ the advent of the larger router is the spindle shaper (or the router mounted as a shaper). There's a chunk of spinning steel that can do some major damage in a hurry. I doubt it could meet the proposed CPSC spec, but it could minimize the trauma otherwise.

Festool'll have to stay out of the equation on the TS from the EU regulation standpoint or there will be no dado head of any type; EU reg's prohibit them and I think enforce user compliance by not allowing an arbor shaft long enough to mount one...

I was expecting that from CPSC before they actually took up Gass's complaint, meself...as EU had already led the way.

Reply to
dpb

Yeah, the Festool hand held planer.

I wonder if the shapers, and mostly because they spin at a relative low RPM compared to a TS blade, if they could make an electromagnetic brake much like cordless drills use.

Yeah there is that. And I wonder what the issue with a dado blade is with the EU regulation. But with that knowledge I think it is more about stacking blades than cutting dado's. If the arbor oscillated like a spindle sander does a single blade could be used. As for as the EU is concerned I do not think a dado blade is the issue as you can get dado blades that are fixed width. I really think it is about the multiple stacked blades that is the issue. I think with so many surfaces touching each other extra pressure is needed to prevent the mass from coming loose on the arbor. More than a simple single blade. I witnessed this once on my saw, I did not properly tighten the dado set and it had enough mass and momentum that the stack continued to spin well after the arbor stopped spinning. And on my right tilt saw it could have loosened the nut enough to fall off.

Check out this Felder dado blade. Actually stacked but only two really wide dado blades that engage on the arbor and two dowels that lock the blades to prevent slipping between each blade.

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Reply to
Leon

On Sunday, July 9, 2017 at 8:22:51 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote: .

While beloved by their fans, I think some people forget that TTS is a highl y successful, wholly owned company that does as they please. No stockholde rs, no huge investment groups, no one to answer to in order to beat the las t gasp out of a dollar to get profits maximized at the cost of quality. Th ey are a manufacturing company specializing in the innovation (did you know that one of the companies in their lineage developed the orbital sander an d the track saw?), engineering and development of hand held tools.

I was surprised that no on raised an eyebrow when TTS/Festool announced a l oose partnership with 3M to cash in on the ever increasing auto repair mark et. Festool will be developing new lines of sanders (no doubt highlighting dust collection) and metal working tools for the industry as well as new t echnologies for sheet metal finishing using 3M's expertise in this field.

The point being that Festool is a billion dollar company that is moving for ward and there is no telling what Festool will be doing with the SS technol ogy. They have a lot of irons in the fires, and no doubt we know of only a few. No doubt they have their eye on the future of their business, and no doubt they are going to try to maintain their reputation as quality builde rs of innovative machines.

Robert

Reply to
nailshooter41

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