Looks like one of the competitors that appreciates the technology took
I'm betting that we might see more tools from Festool that might have
this type technology. IIRC the current Festool jigsaw was delayed
because of a feature that was not right for the American consumer.
This all assuming that they bought the rights to this technology also.
On Friday, July 7, 2017 at 7:18:54 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
Probably a couple of different things at play here. I don't know Gass, nev
er met him, but he has a reputation for his abrasive behavior. I don't see
much commentary about the actual technological achievements, but it could
be he has taken this as far as his own talent can take it. While furthering
his own agenda he has no doubt sunk countless hours and dollars into defen
ding the blade stop patents.
A fresh infusion of money, a team of exacting engineers with new ideas and
energy could be a real boon to SawStop. Plus, a billion dollar company wit
h a hard of lawyers will be defending the SawStop technology as they have a
ggressively done with their own products.
My hope was that Gass would run out of gas and start licensing the technolo
gy and its ancillary developments. With their teams of patent attorneys an
d the own marketing plans, no doubt in my mind that TTS will guard, protect
and hoard the technology until they no longer can.
We may see something else that performs the same task, but I would readily
bet we don't see the SawStop technology outside of the TTS stable of produc
On Sunday, July 9, 2017 at 5:44:38 AM UTC-4, J. Clarke wrote:
never met him, but he has a reputation for his abrasive behavior. I don't
see much commentary about the actual technological achievements, but it co
uld be he has taken this as far as his own talent can take it. While furthe
ring his own agenda he has no doubt sunk countless hours and dollars into d
efending the blade stop patents.
and energy could be a real boon to SawStop. Plus, a billion dollar company
with a hard of lawyers will be defending the SawStop technology as they ha
ve aggressively done with their own products.
nology and its ancillary developments.
Just a question, not an attack:
If Festool is indeed altruistic regarding the technology and allows other t
it in their own tools - at what you would consider a fair royalty arrangeme
nt - would you
still refuse to buy Festool products based solely on the fact that Gass is
part of the company?
Some will always make decisions based on non pertinent emotions. It's the
only way they know how to choose.
The cost to offer a feature on a product is inconsequential if your
customer is willing to pay for it. Proven time and again with the success
of each new line of saws that SS has introduced.
Given SS's success and dominance, in a relative short amount of time, and
the obvious disappearance of some brands and their respective models in
woodworking businesses, I would say that not paying for the licenses and
offering their customers a choice to to buy this safety technology was far
more costly than the license.
Before SS I recall being able to touch and feel, at local stores, the
larger DeWalt hybrid TS's, Hitachi contractor saws, Powermatic contractor
saws, Delta Unisaws and contractor saws, ShopSmith multifunction machines,
Steel City table saws. Today in the our country's 4th largest city/metro
area your obvious choices have shrunk to SawStop, Powermatic, and Jet if
you want to touch and feel a non bench top sized TS.
In the past 15 or so years, with the introduction of each new model/class
of TS, those brands/models listed above have one by one disappeared from
local retailers floors.
I would say that Festool was pretty smart with the acquisition of SawStop.
Obviously more costly than just buying a license to offer the technology
but also an investment into remaining relevant.
So Leon, are you ready for your next Domino to have a steel spike
explosively shoot into the motor armature and the bit get vaporized by a
laser when your finger gets too close to the cutter? 8^)
I'll be very interested if Festool does come out with a table saw. Not
necessarily to buy one, but to see what innovative features they might
come up with. The TS has not changed much in the past century beyond a
raise/tilt system and a fence, what truly game changing feature could
possibly be next (besides more safety stuff)?
LOL. It would probably be beneficial but not so much as with a TS or BS.
The design of plate joiners and the Domino make them pretty safe.
BUT the Kapex could certainly benefit.
My guess is that Festool would/could probably introduce this technology
to their Kapex, maybe their planers... I doubt that they would want to
start making a Festool TS with this feature since they now own a company
that does make TS's. Festool seems, at least here, to focus on the
portable power tools. The TS is less portable with the exception of the
job site contractors saw.
I guess Festool could share technologies and maybe offer a better fence
other than the Beis clone. Something like the old Delta Unifence comes
to mind. Maybe not a wobble but perhaps an oscillating blade option for
I can't see much need at all on planer unless you're thinking of
handheld jobbers (which I guess is all Festool would have, anyway) so maybe.
I think the biggest safety spot albeit not so much in use any more w/
the advent of the larger router is the spindle shaper (or the router
mounted as a shaper). There's a chunk of spinning steel that can do
some major damage in a hurry. I doubt it could meet the proposed CPSC
spec, but it could minimize the trauma otherwise.
Festool'll have to stay out of the equation on the TS from the EU
regulation standpoint or there will be no dado head of any type; EU
reg's prohibit them and I think enforce user compliance by not allowing
an arbor shaft long enough to mount one...
I was expecting that from CPSC before they actually took up Gass's
complaint, meself...as EU had already led the way.
I wonder if the shapers, and mostly because they spin at a relative low
RPM compared to a TS blade, if they could make an electromagnetic brake
much like cordless drills use.
Yeah there is that. And I wonder what the issue with a dado blade is
with the EU regulation. But with that knowledge I think it is more
about stacking blades than cutting dado's. If the arbor oscillated like
a spindle sander does a single blade could be used.
As for as the EU is concerned I do not think a dado blade is the issue
as you can get dado blades that are fixed width. I really think it is
about the multiple stacked blades that is the issue. I think with so
many surfaces touching each other extra pressure is needed to prevent
the mass from coming loose on the arbor. More than a simple single
blade. I witnessed this once on my saw, I did not properly tighten the
dado set and it had enough mass and momentum that the stack continued to
spin well after the arbor stopped spinning. And on my right tilt saw it
could have loosened the nut enough to fall off.
Check out this Felder dado blade. Actually stacked but only two really
wide dado blades that engage on the arbor and two dowels that lock the
blades to prevent slipping between each blade.
As I recall, and I haven't seen this discussed in years, it was spindown
time. Dado sets take longer to spin down than a normal blade, and
apparently European Regulators can't wait that long. Maybe the saw made
that whirring noise dado sets make and they need to change their pants?
A mini archive of some of rec.woodworking's best and worst!
All the shapers I've got are 3X or so the rpm of of TS...even the low
range on the 2-speed is 7,000 rpm. A 10" TS manufacturer's max tip
speed will limit RPM to something under 5,000 to 5,500 iirc w/o looking
up specific numbers.
Anyways, shapers run at quite a lot higher rpm than do TS's owing to the
tip diameter of cutters being smaller so need it for the tip speed.
Think routers; 20 to 27,000 ain't unusual for the same reason; the
router bit diameter is much smaller so needs to spin faster to compensate.
There's quite a lot of mass on a 1" shaper spindle w/ a 6" panel-raiser
on it...it'd take a sizeable EM to shut it down quickly enough to make
and difference on the accident scenario methinks... :)
OH! Nevermind. I was under the impression that they ran really slow,
not just much slower than a router. Thanks for pointing that out.
Yeah I remember that now, IIRC I mentioned on a post, several posts ago,
that tip speed was important on any tool/cutter. IIRC the discussion
was why you could not put a router bit in a drill press and get
Totally agreed! Your lights would dim, probably. ;~)
HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here.
All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.