Track saws?

[Sledge Hammer]

I'm pretty new and after most of the first semester at the local community, I'm finally ready to buy some of my own tools (starting from nothing). Given the constraints of money and space, I'm going to be working outside and need a portable substitute for a tablesaw to do rip cuts on lumber and sheet products. I'm pretty new and get freaked out by exposed spinning blades (including the Sawstop they use in class), so a contractor's saw is not my favorite option for now.

DeWalt, Festool, and Eurekazone (which works with a third party circular saw) all have similar-looking systems. Anyone have experience with them? Would a heavy worktable and a couple of sawhorses be adequate support for doing longer rip cuts?

Suggestions on substitute devices are also welcome. My main interest at this point, given my current skills and budget, is in having tools to do craft-type furniture--benches, tables, chairs, smaller cabinet type work.

[Nova]

I'd suggest a decent circular saw with a good blade, a couple of clamps and a home made saw guide as depicted in the below article:

[SonomaProducts.com]

I think any track saw system or a jig like the one shown by Nova are an OK starting point. Circular saws are a lot harder to get good cuts so a good sharp and appropriate blade is a must. Plywood use a fairly fine blade but if you can find something with some extrat gullets (missing teeth) it works better to clear the chips. Hardwood probably works better with a combo blade or true ripping blade.

For the table, look for some literature on sacrificial setups. You can make some saw horses with an extra 2 x 4 on top to take the cutting or some folks use a big piece of styrafoam. Search Plywood Cutting Table on Google for lots of ideas. Solid stock will be a very different animal. I would not look forward to ripping an 8" wide board down to

4" with a circular saw. I would much rather do it on a $100 Home Depot table top table saw... personally.

[J. Clarke]

If you're doing cabinetry eventually you're going to need a table saw, but even when you have one a track saw will be very useful for dealing with sheet goods--cutting a sheet of 3/4" MDF or to approximate size first is a lot easier than manhandling the whole monster onto your table saw.

Rather than getting a purpose-made track saw or spending money for the EZ-Smart, first you might want to try making a guide from a piece of plywood

Costs under 20 bucks (you don't need any kind of fancy plywood--CDX sheathing works fine) and works a treat.

[Jim]

There isn't a woodworking tool around that hasn't caused serious injury to someone. I try to be sure that I review the setup before turning on any piece of machinery.

However, a table saw is not my favorite tool for cutting long stock lengthwise. When I cut 4x8 plywood to width, I use a circular saw against a long guide. When I cut long boards to width, I use adjustable supports to keep the board level.

A good table saw will make most of what you want to do. A good table saw may outlast you. I also use a jig saw, routers, drills, a drill press, and assorted sanders. One of these days, I will add a joiner and a planer. Jim

[Tom Dacon]

I have the Festool, and I really like it. You can actually make your final finish cuts with the saw and its track, just as accurately as you can measure and mark the wood. It's worlds better than a regular circular saw because the arbor doesn't have any runout to speak of, so the cuts are smooth and clean.

The blade is completely enclosed until you push it down into the wood, and it has a good depth stop, so you're not exposing any spinning blades when you use it.

I use a couple of sawhorses with a sacrificial piece of OSB on top as a rough bench. Then I just put my plywood or MDF right on the OSB and set the saw's depth stop so that it extends no more than an eighth of an inch or so into the OSB. Works like a charm.

Tom

[-MIKE-]

That looks very impressive, as does most of the Festool line.

The thing I can afford from Festool is their little plastic block sander.... and it's overpriced, too. :-)

[Old Guy]

Hi,

Something I used a lot when I was very limited in space and tools was a hand jigsaw. Scroll saw? Not sure of the proper name.

Anyhow with a supply of fresh blades, it does a good job of making first cuts, both rip and cross cut and in plywood. Sawhorses with some auxiliary supports keep the work off the ground.

They ain't accurate. You won't get dead straight rips, or even vertical cuts, but you will get your pieces cut out to managable size. You can then use a small bench saw, or band saw, or even a good hand saw to get your finished cuts. The size of pieces you need will control what you use.

Personally, I think the circular saw is the second most hazardous tool I put in my hand. The router is the first. They both scare me.

Old Guy

[Stuart]

I think the most hazardous tool is a hand held electric plane.

I still remember the very first time I used one.

You know how when you are hand planing a narrow edge, you curl your fingers round under the sole so that the tips rest aginst your work and act as a guide.........

[-MIKE-]

You how they say, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people? Same thing goes for tools.

There are no dangerous tools, just stupid people. :-)

[Stuart]

Fair comment.

[Richard]

Not necessarily. How about people who are tired or distracted by something or just in a little too much of a hurry. Not stupid- just ordinary people like us. Don't say it can't happen to me. Add "yet" after statements like that. Nobody plans to have an accident.

Richard

[-MIKE-]

Stupid people work while tired or distracted. Stupid people work take short cuts when in a hurry.

It has happened. Kickback from a table saw. I was being stupid.

[B A R R Y]

Yes and no...

I think part of it comes from training and development of concentration.

I totally understand what you mean on one level. Somebody untrained and undisciplined does "one quick cut" under any combination of factors and amputates something. Is it a sad coincidence? Or is it stupidity?

I've had the privilege of formal training in woodworking, high voltage electrics, and flight. What they all have in common, is the goal of the student understanding what frame of mind they should be in to safely complete the activity and continuing to use the same level of care after training is completed. The golden goal is for the student to automatically recognize a bad human or mechanical factor, while there is still time to stop, long after training is complete.

The key is when you are tired, distracted, or unsure of the correct method to follow, yet you choose to continue into a situation. Some might hold that out as stupidity. I might also hold out someone who blindly uses a tool capable of quickly cutting tough materials, without so much as reading the manual or instructions, as stupid.

In my day job, I've known people who were killed under those circumstances, even though they had regular reminders and formal training of why we follow safety procedures. They even had enough experience to have personally had occasions where the properly followed safety procedures uncovered a deadly condition in advance, so they were unhurt at the time.

The "not stupid" comes in when a failure that could not be reasonably expected, or found in advance with a reasonable inspection, causes things to go awry.

The gray area comes in with the self-taught nature of woodworking. But hey, that's where warning labels and user manual sidebars come from.

Sorry for the long post, but this is something I take a big interest in...

[Puckdropper]

-MIKE- wrote in news:gg9lm8$odj$1 @nntp.motzarella.org:

There are dangerous tools out there. For one example, take a dremel tool with cut off disk. If you get the disk just a little out of alignment, the disk will break and be sent flying all over the place.

The easiest way to make it safer is to use a thicker disk, but they sometimes break and disintegrate too.

Puckdropper

[Stuart]

Well I was taught woodwork at school for three years (1959-'62) but it was all hand tools. There were only two pieces of powered equipment in the shop then. A lathe which the teacher did some demonstrations on and an ancient whetstone grinder - sort of thing that has about a two foot diameter wheel, about six inches wide and rotates at about 60rpm.

My working life I spent maintaining and repairing transmitters for the BBC, everything from 2W UHF relays to 300kW HF transmitters. All valves (tubes) in the early days though we never got away from the need for high voltages at high power. I was properly trained, I was authorised under the HV switchgear rules.

All of us, I guess, did driver training and passed a test in order to get our licences but we all make errors from time to time - not necessarily leading to any sort of "accident" or damage to ourselves or vehicles.

I went to plane something and in a moment of thoughtless, an act of habit I suppose, I picked up a power plane and grasped it like a hand plane.

It's a bit like the following example:

Every day you drive to work, taking the same route and turn left at a certain junction, you've been doing it for years. Now, it's your day off and you're going somewhere which involves driving the same route except that you need to turn right at the junction. Your driving is fine, safe and steady, you're concentrating on the traffic around you and suddenly you realise you turned left at that junction after all.

[Ed Edelenbos]

I'm coming in way late in the thread but 2 stories to relate...

1) Getting ready for a festival where a couple friends were setting up a table, I was making a table top much too quickly (a "last minute" type deal). With something as simple as a utility knife... The plan was to re-top an existing table with a layer of quarter inch of hardboard. Instead of going through the motions to get a real saw out and making the cut, I decided to hold a 1 by on it as a straight edge and cut it with the utility knife. Well, duh! The knife slipped and I have a scar on my left index finger from an eighth inch below the nail to the second knuckle. 2) Winter. Unheated shop, about 30F. 1 pass in the router table to make. (side note, cheap Skil (I think) router, early in my days of power tools, if I had been using hand tools, this wouldn't have happened) I set the bit height and did a test pass. Not quite high enough. I loosened the lock and started tapping the tool to get it up just a hair... using my left hand to feel the height in relation to the fence and my right hand to tap. I don't even need to tell the rest, do I? The tapping hand hit the switch and the pinky and ring finger of my left hand were in the blade. Another pair of scars I'll wear forever. Luckily, they were just resting loosely so they basically flopped out of the way. I got the machine off and looked at the red splatter and then my hand (another side note, I have played guitar since I was 13). It was the closest I have ever come to fainting. I had to go in the house, remove my insulated overalls and lay down on the floor with my feet elevated on a chair. Oh, to top it all off, I was completely alone... no one to call for help I had really needed it. They healed fine but it took about 5 weeks before I could use them anywhere near normally and about 10 weeks before I could play my guitar with all the fingers on my left hand.

Hmmmm.... why *am* I relating this? Hopefully someone out there will learn from my mistakes, I guess. And saying "crap happens" I guess. Were these things stupid? I dunno... maybe. I'd like to chalk them up to inexperience. What would have been really stupid would be if I hadn't learned from them. Both of these were done as a result of trying to rush things and not following basic safety procedures. Hopefully, I'm better at assessing things like that.

Ed

[DiggerOp]

Ideed: 25 years ago, - Heavy angle grinder with 9" wheel, in a hurry, taking shortcuts. (Shortcuts that I knew presented danger.) Grinder kicked back, hitting me in the face with the wheel. Result: Near death from blood loss, emergency surgery and over 100 sutures to repair face.

........stupid!

[J. Clarke]

Fatigue impairs judgment. Stupidity has nothing to do with it.

[-MIKE-]

You're correct. All of them.

That can be said, given different specifics, with any tool.

Here's the easiest way to make a hammer safer.