PAT / safety-testing - domestic lighting?

Why should he change?

I can go to Asda tonight and buy a mains lamp that in all honesty look far less safe than those in the photo.

The wall wart may be a good idea but are you aware that the light still needs PAT testing if testing is required?

AB

Reply to
Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp
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Sorry - green _and_ yellow! Give me a break - I'm only just coming to terms with brown & blue instead of red & black

Reply to
Adrian Brentnall

Understood. This may all be an unnecessary exercise - as I say, I've only had the one query in the last ten years - and that (possibly) from somebody with 'an agenda'.

Understood

We're a bit out in the wilds here - I'll make some enquiries from my friendly local electrical shop, possibly tomorrow.

What sort of test are you envisaging? Plenty of meters here (could even get one calibrated)....

Again - we're a bit out in the wilds. And a bit reluctant to spend a lot of cash on training I've been in electronics in a personal and professional capacity for quite a few years - also in production/testing environments....

Reply to
Adrian Brentnall

Yes - quite considerable problems - lead-free solder is available, but it's horrible stuff to work with - not going there

Reply to
Adrian Brentnall

Grand - you know where we are if you want to talk...

The lamps are a small part of my work - which ranges from custom-made leaded stained-glass panels (several thousand euro each), through smaller 'tiffany-style' panels for doors and windows, and all the way down to fused-glass 'gift' items and jewellery (under a tenner).

There's also a fairly busy trade in repair and renovation - everything from lampshades to large churches. I keep busy enough

Relatively If you come out of Cork airport and head due West, you'll be at our place in about 70 minutes. We're between Bantry and Skibbereen - well out in the wilds! Cork to us is a Big City

Could be worse places to commute to I like Cork airport - small enough to get my head around. Have you flown into Kerry Airport? - that's fun!

Adrian

Reply to
Adrian Brentnall

Mmm - there's a fair few issues around that too - mostly about customer acceptance, but also long-term maintainability. Sourcing & changing an ordinary lightbulb is not too difficult ... the low-voltage stuff (particularly in led) is less readily-available.

Reply to
Adrian Brentnall

Been past it often. I keep northish though.

Only out, to Dublin.

Kerry is closest to my destination [Fahamore, Castlegregory] but I think the only UK flight in is from Stanstead.

AB

Reply to
Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp

Are FAS still going over there? I found that they ran courses at the local college [Tralee for yours truly]. The lecturers were dedicated and helpful. As they were fairly local, they were very approachable.

If you locate one he might direct you to a student or two.

You need to measure Volts thats about it really. If you have a DMM that is calibrated for Voltage current and resistance, and has it's impedance certified all thats needed is a DC supply and a known resistance to develop the "test" Voltage across.

Likewise an earth bond is just the Voltage developed across the appliance when a high current, low Voltage is fed from ground up through the appliance.

If you have the Voltage and current, the unknown is easy.

If you only ever make the one type of unit a test jig would be simple to construct.

The double insulated route would make testing a doddle, but I doubt that it would be feasible with a cable mounted switch.

It isn't compulsory. I only went because it seemed stupid that I could design and build instrumentation, yet had to take the units to the site electrician before I could use the things :-)

It is good to get the book though, I think it was the HSE that provided the book used for the course and it was a valuable asset.

All the electrically biased Engineers and electricians do PAT testing where I work in the UK the training is internal and takes less than a half day.

In the twenty years or so since I did the course, I have not found one thing apart from heating elements, that failed the electrical tests.

Everything was obvious by a visual inspection, including the problems that were missed by the previous button pushing label sticker.

AB

Reply to
Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp

Ah, right

yes - in or out - much the same.

We used it for a holiday (from Stanstead), probably 15 years ago (may have changed since) but they had to clear the cows off the runway before our flight could take off. Back then, there were two gates - being two doors in the same room about 20 feet apart. You half expected to see a bunch of khaki tents, and pilots in sheepskin jackets - nice little airport...

Adrian

Reply to
Adrian Brentnall

On 02-Feb-18 7:55 PM, Adrian Brentnall wrote: ...

The main concern with lead would be its proper disposal, which brings up another EU Directive you need to take into consideration: Directive

2012/19/EU Waste Electrical and Electronic Equipment. That covers just about anything that is fitted with a plug or uses a battery.

In which case, the packaging should show this, along with a warning that it is a two person lift.

Reply to
Nightjar

On Friday, 2 February 2018 20:52:01 UTC, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wro te:

to avoid the risk of expensive legal proceedings

If the light were powered from a SELV wallwart, only the wallawart would ne ed PAT testing - at times when a PAT test is warranted that is. Which it is n't anyway. But with an external wallwart the safety requirements for the E LV luminaire become lower & easier to achieve.

NT

Reply to
tabbypurr

the solder question is a bit academic as the whole thing is made with lead cames.(leadlight)

Reply to
FMurtz

Is this to solder the led cames? :)

Reply to
FMurtz

For arguments sake, you remove the mains lamp from the box and insert one lamp and PSU.

How do you gain?

If the client demands a PAT test on the lamp, it's unlikely that he'll allow the new version to go through also.

A test is a test full stop. You plug a device into the mains, it's a portable appliance. To argue that testing is somehow easier or less stringent by adding a PSU is ridiculous.

AB

Reply to
Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp

I had to go on a course. Which work paid for. Didn't really learn anything

- so must have been competent before.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

Thought the restrictions on leaded solder were only for H&S in production. Not final use.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

And Cork isn't in the UK either.

Best not to consult dodgy websites for H&S information.

If chlorinated chicken is ok in Britain, lead poisoining will be an acceptable risk in the brave new world of the Brexit fraternity :-)

AB

Reply to
Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp

for which there are of course unleaded alternatives like copper strip. But Adrian doesn't want to go unleaded.

NT

Reply to
tabbypurr

Of course not. Google Tiffany.

NT

Reply to
tabbypurr

need PAT testing - at times when a PAT test is warranted that is. Which it isn't anyway. But with an external wallwart the safety requirements for th e ELV luminaire become lower & easier to achieve.

I'm not recommending it, but you gain by the luminaire being exempt from th e rules & regulations that apply to mains appliances. It's why wallwarts ar e so popular.

quite the opposite, wallwarts are trivial to pat test. A wallwart powered l uminaire is exempt from PAT testing as it's not a mains electrical device. It would also be exempt from the need to be class I or II, for strain relie f & so on.

Then you need to brush up on your PAT testing knowledge. Laptops powered by a brick are PAT exempt, only the PSU needs testing.

And I can't see any way in which exempting the 19v laptop from PAT testing would be ridiculous. On the contrary it would be a bit ridiculous to PAT te st it, as it's never connected to the mains.

NT

Reply to
tabbypurr

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