PAT / safety-testing - domestic lighting?

[Adrian Brentnall]

I could probably win that particular argument

- but I do see that some PAT testers come with a "Learn thyself PAT testing" DVD, complete with a final exam to do / pass...

Dredging back a few years to when I used to get paid for asking these difficult questions - probably creating a Test Procedure document detailing the who, what, when, where would cover it. Then there's the thorny issue of calibrating the tester - which could be satisfied by a couple of 'just pass / just fail' test boxes - but then you've got to calibrate them... and so it goes on....

[Adrian Brentnall]

I guess...

To reach the brass bulbholder you've got to reach down past the bulb. I guess "Unplug from mains before changing bulb" would do it..

The shade itself is "exposed metalwork" - but it's on brass legs that are glued into the woodwork lam-base (so insulated) - and get no nearer than an inch or so to the brass lampholder.

If absolutely vital, a wire could be run from the metalwork of the shade to the brass lampholder.....?

[Adrian Brentnall]

Mmm - but how far back up the chain do you go?

Understand the theory - but "shouldn't" the user disconnect from the mains before changing the bulb? - I could certainly add a label to that effect

All depends how much faith ( = defence, m'Lud!) one can put in the incoming assemblies, I suppose. Thanks Adrian

[Lee]

snip

Yep, same here and I suspect it's probably the same UK distributor of a certain Chinese 'Scope :)

I thought it was a nice gesture, though they were probably just covering themselves :)

[alan_m]

40W led? That's equivalent to a 250W incandescent!

You may have to be a bit careful how you word your instruction leaflet or sticker.

[tabbypurr]

PAT testing is not legally required for new goods. A safety assessment & CE declaration is for a lot of items.

The approvals cover what is supplied to you, not what you manufacture. You should go through the CE assessment process, in which you would address pos sible issues such as electrical safety, mechanical stability, flammability, suitability for various environments, toxicity of materials etc. With that done you may affix a CE sticker and sell it.

A retailer can of course place any conditions they like on their purchases from you. They may regadr a PAT test as an adequate substitute for your leg al duties, though legally it would not be complaint with CE requirements. I hear informally that CE declarations are often abused.

The first obvious question that springs to mind is are your lamps class I o r II? And are your shades lead soldered?

NT

[Andy Burns]

Yes I regarded it as a nice touch, but not necessary. I see that now they even unlock the bonus features for you ...

"Buy a new Rigol DS1000Z series oscilloscope and get ALL software options ... (deeper memory, record & replay, advanced trigger functions and serial-bus analysis) ... for FREE!"

[tabbypurr]

I'm wondering if your appliance conforms to either class I or class II requirements. Written instructions on changing bulbs is required. Ditto rewiring plugs. Ditto max wattage.

NT

[newshound]

That was what I thought too.

Superficially, something like PAT testing (and perhaps a megger test?) might provide evidence of correct wiring for every item.

Had an interesting experience in a £16m project which had eight more or less identical installations. We concluded in the end that, yes, each of these needed a CE mark and associated documentation.

Each of these had an electrical hoist bought in from the USA. A design which our prime contractor had been using in this sort of application for the best part of fifty years because of its proven fail-safe properties. But, not surprisingly, there were no design calculations for the castings and other mechanical parts, so the design authority guys couldn't see any way to generate the documentation now required for CE marking. It would have needed more than simple proof load testing because of the complicated nature of the application. Never heard how they got around it, but the kit got built so I suppose they must have done somehow.

[tabbypurr]

PAT testing applies different standards to new construction of appliances, so while PAT testing would demonstrate a useful level of safety, it doesn't really demonstrate full compliance. As examples, voltage rating of mains w ire is not addressed by PAT testing, nor is copper plated steel mains flex conductors.

NT

[Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp]

They have "form" actually. Twas many years back but there were neon testers on the market where the spring used as a contact between the resistor and end cap, sprung across the resistor, effectively shorting it.

I am not aware of any fatalities, but a neon lamp will pass a very uncomfortable amount of wallymitts when not hampered by a few hundred K

AB

[Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp]

I may uf course be wrong, but as far as I am aware neither mains wire or copper coated conductors are appliances.

AB

[Rob Morley]

Speaking of which, a "do not cover" sticker should cover it. :-)

[Rob Morley]

Just search eBay for 1000V VDE screwdriver (if they don't have them in Aldidl at the moment).

[Robin]

I've never seen those. Even with stuff from Ikea which requires some assembly they just show a bulb heading in the right direction with nothing more - no indication as to which way to screw it, no warning to unplug first, no warning that the old one may be hot, ....

[Adrian Brentnall]

Yes - you're right, of course You'd get aircraft coming in to land....

[Adrian Brentnall]

Yes - that seems to be where this is heading..

Just-about do-able, I suppose

I think, in this particular person's case, it's a matter of 'got out of the wrong side of the bed this morning...'

They may regadr a PAT test as an adequate substitute for your legal duties, though legally it would not be complaint with CE requirements. I hear informally that CE declarations are often abused.

Yes - lots of lead solder used in the construction of the lampshade. "You are recommended not to chew this lampshade....."

As to the class I vs Class II - I did check the definitions, and I'm not sure. Three-core mains cable, brass bayonet lampholder (earthed) screwed to wooden lamp-base. Stained-glass shade, pegged and glued into wooden lamp-base. I'm guessing Class I ?

[Adrian Brentnall]

Where would that leave me?

OK

Ditto rewiring plugs.

Moulded-on plug - does that still apply?

Ditto max wattage.

Fair enough. Thanks Adrian

[tabbypurr]

s, so while PAT testing would demonstrate a useful level of safety, it does n't really demonstrate full compliance. As examples, voltage rating of main s wire is not addressed by PAT testing, nor is copper plated steel mains fl ex conductors.

ok, I shan't bother.

[tabbypurr]

more fool them