PAT

[DerbyBorn]

My wife has arranged a speaker for her WI Group at the Church Hall.

The speaker has asked for a PAT Tested Extension Lead for her projector.

I can't see why - other than to avoid any responsibility if a faulty lead was provided. Surely her equipment could not be damaged.

A lead is provided by the Church Hall - we, as users, have no idea if it is PAT Tested.

Not sure what to get my wife to say to the speaker.

I have not ruled out that the lead may be PAT tested - not easy to check right now.

...but what responsibility is it of the speaker?

[Bill Wright]

Just check the cable and then tell her it's been PAT tested. Print a label off the internet (there's loads) and stick it on the thing if you can be bothered.

Bill

[Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp]

I thought all the idiots on the NG were taken up by Brexit.

At one time people "on the road" were at particular risk from cables being bundled into vans and the like after every "gig". Electric guitar players were very prone to exiting the world of the living, both through their own equipment and items left for the users of the venue with no real responsibility for maintenance being taken.

If you need to ask the question as to responsibility for testing of the cable, then you really are in no position to do your own testing and pull labels off the internet.

Your speakers equipment couldn't in any forseeable way be damaged whatever the condition of the connecting cable.

An opportunity for deep thought methinks, and while you're at it, look up "duty of care" on your search engine.

Your speaker seems to have her wits about her, what's the subject it may be quite a rewarding lecture.

AB

[John Rumm]

Its not a risk to equipment particularly - although I suppose a lead with damaged socket connections which could cause arcing, may blow a projector lamp should it happen at the wrong time. (note that many projector lamps can cost hundreds to replace)

If you have no idea, then its likely its not. Its not something that happens by accident.

Probably cheaper to offer to buy a new one for her to use. Tell her she can keep it as well for a contribution of funds!

Alternatively if there is a local charity shop that sells electrical stuff, they probably have a tame tester you may be able to call on.

Odd choice of words...?

Is the responsibility of the Hall "management" to ensure any equipment provided is safe to use.

The speaker is just being (sensibly) cautious, since she is probably aware that in small organisations like this, dodgy kit can knock about for years without anyone actually inspecting it or, more importantly, scrapping / repairing / taking out of service anything that looks questionable.

[Max Demian]

Surely one bought from a reputable supplier can be regarded as safe.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

An extension lead with line and earth reversed?

Might not damage the equipment, but could kill her.

If she is bringing her own projector why not her own extension lead too? With an RCD plug fitted.

[Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp]

Yes, well?

That was already fairly clear.

It would be tempting but from the perspective of a person that uses extentions on other peoples sites to power tools, laptops etc, it is far better to get the site to organise the thing. Trying to get the go ahead to use steps to run the cable off the floor is too unsafe for a lot of the Hi Vis spotters in industry.

An extension is a pretty dangerous item, especially so if the room is in semi darkness to display a projected image.

If the client supplies the cable and runs it out in what they say is a safe manner, the speaker will have little chance of being sued when someone goes flying over it.

Having said that, if there is an obvious problem with the cable route and the speaker is aware, they too have a duty of care.

AB

[spuorgelgoog]

She'll be bringing the PAT Testing certificate for the projector with her (with the test person's competency certificate and the calibration certificate for the test machine used)?

Owain

[Robert]

I dont believe there is any requirement to actually label portable equipment with a "PAT tested " label or even keep a register of devices tested. It does help in providing an audit trail if it becomes necessary though

[Bill Wright]

The PAT test for extension leads comprises: Test insulation resistance and polarity. Visual check.

Anyone could do that, except possibly a remainer idiot.

Bill

[spuorgelgoog]

My mother couldn't.

But she wouldn't have been able to use a projector, anyway.

Owain

[Alan]

And check the earth is continuous from the plug to each/every outlet. And check the fuse is correct And fill in the Log Book of equipment. Or give them a written note if it is only the one piece of equipment that you need to inspect. You can also stick on a Pass label if you want, though it isnt mandatory. But, if you fit a label, you do need the 'new' labels (new being 4 years old now) that do not have a 'next test date', as the Tester does not recommend the next test date now, and it should not be printed on any labels.

Well, possibly, but it isnt as easy as you think if done properly, as you have just proven.

[charles]

If the lead belongs to the Church Hall, then it is the responsibility of the Hall management to provide safe equipment for hirers to use.

[newshound]

Well they could always ask!

Both excellent ideas. I think I am right in thinking that PAT testing isn't legally required on kit less than a year old? (So keep the receipt).

[newshound]

No but a lot of places like to see stickers. My main client has a fairly large office and they have a contractor around for a couple of hours every weekday morning who does free tests for anyone who asks. (You do have to get past security).

[Steve Walker]

Some years ago, a well known and reputable UK manufacturer produced a whole load of extensions that were incorrectly wired and all had to be recalled.

Whether any were actually sold to customers I don't know.

SteveW

[Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp]

"Just check the cable and then tell her it's been PAT tested. Print a label off the internet (there's loads) and stick it on the thing if you can be bothered."

The initial question should have made it abundantly clear the bloke was clueless.

Anyone cannot do it, there is a C&G course to train people to do it and they still get it wrong.

Your "advice" is just typical of the gormless idiots infesting this NG that are clueless about a subject, google a few words and then try to impress the poor recipient with their astounding knowledge.

"If you can be bothered" and safety are mutually exclusive terms.

AB

[Chris Green]

Did you really have to bring that into the issue? It may be obvous to say it but - wanting to leave the EU or not doesn't have anything to do with PAT. It makes me wonder why I should listen to anything you say (well I don't much).

[Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp]

It's a get out [hopefully].

If an item is regularly inspected and tested in accordance with current practices, it is very unlikely that the HSE will prosecute if an accident occurs through an unforseen fault condition.

No guarantees, they might still prosecute, but it would be damned difficult proving the case.

Simple as that.

AB

[tabbypurr]

That's far from true. The process may be simple but there's lots of little complexities that come into it in practice, and the tester needs to know how to deal with those. eg not all cordgrips are acceptable. The average person has no idea what forms exist or how to assess which do the job - or even what the job is they need to do. eg not all flexes are acceptable. Some are single insulated, 110v rated, clearly too thin, etc etc. Plug type matters, most folk have no idea about that. I've found sockets that function but don't grip the plug pins. A fire waiting to happen, they shouldn't pass.

NT