OT: wetwipes down the bog

[T i m]

Yes, many of them but not all (of course). ;-)

Probably not. ;-(

Oh, yes, love em. A mate was riding his motorbike when someone threw their cigarette butt out of the car window and it landed in his (slightly open) jacket. He caught the guy up at the traffic lights and explained what had just happened. The guy seemed far from bothered, let alone apologetic so when the lights changed, most people drove off, except this particular litterer, who had fallen asleep at the wheel for some reason. ;-)

My first lesson on that was as a fairly young kid when I *sneaked* a sweet wrapper out of the rear window of our Austin A40. Unfortunately for me (or fortunately as it turned out from a social responsibility POV), Dad spotted it, pulled over and sent me (some way) back to retrieve it.

Normally, Mum would 'collect' all our wrappers and empty things and ensure they were disposed of properly. ;-)

Daughter used to remove empty bottles and cans from where they had been stuffed in hedges by her fellow school students (when she was walking behind them and saw them doing it) and take them home. Some of them also got the message.

If anyone littered in school in her presence she would mention that 'you seemed to have dropped something' and again, they generally picked it up. Now some of that may have been down to her being one of the few who could 'manage' ... and was the best friend of the school 'psychopath in the making' and who rarely needed much of an excuse to kill someone.

"She asked you to pick that up ... "

Cheers, T i m

[Richard]

Seems like the Incredibles were modelled on your family.

[Terry Casey]

A few years ago I went to catch a bus. A young woman - mid to late 20s - was sitting in the shelter eating her foul smelling take-away food. When she finished, she just through the packaging under the seat.

When I pointed out the litter bin less than 10 feet away, she let fly.

Apparently, as she was a Council Tax payer, that gave her the right to litter anywhere she pleased!

[Max Demian]

All right if the exercise involves doing anything with any point.

[T i m]

Isn't it bizarre, this dislocation between social responsibility and what people think they can 'just do'.

I wonder if she would be equally happy with you dropping the same outside her house and / or it blowing into her front garden?

At what point does what she does stop being someone else's problem and her being responsible for her own actions?

They (people like that) seem to think 'they' are duty bound to clean up after them no matter what?

I wonder what part of 'We have had to increase the Council Tax to provide more Street Cleansing teams' does she think won't impact her?

Cheers, T i m

[T i m]

I'm happy to take that as a compliment mate. ;-)

The thing is, we aren't alone or even special, I believe we are fairly typical of anyone who has empathy and a grasp of social responsibility ... and that is 'most people' because if it wasn't, we would be in a much worse state than we are now.

And if people are worried about the UK being a nanny state, they might like to consider living somewhere like Singapore.

"... littering fines range from $300 to $1,000 for first time offenders. Both fines rise up to $5,000 for third-time offenders with the possibility of facing jail time."

Bring it on I say! ;-)

Cheers, T i m

[Andrew]

Britains soil fertility might only have a few decades left. Without oil-based fertilisers and bees, there could be problems ahead.

[John Angus]

No evidence of that. And why should it run out in a few decades when it has managed millennia already ?

Without

They don?t have to be oil based.

[whisky-dave]

So what's the problem with that.

Why is that a problem ?

So maybe the council should reliase this and sort it.

In this case you should know you recycle centre is open, and go there then.

For em it's similar to being in a queue for a checkout. It's a balance of expectations, I don't expect to queue for 15mins.

Even though you pay the council tax which included waste disposal.

Why aren't there bins ?

So you want to be on a tube train sitting next to someone that is taking their dog shit home with them ? Or perhaps these people should be made to take a cab.

I hate the smell of kebabs and most fast food even when fresh when sitting on a bus or train I certainly don't want to smell waste food too.

[Andrew]

If you want to feed 70 million people, then yes they do. Forget 'organic' and 'sustainable', that would only support

30 million mouths.

[Chris Hogg]

JOOI which bit of an NPK fertiliser is oil based, bearing in mind that the P and the K are of mineral origin, and the N is usually made by the Haber process from hydrogen and nitrogen? The hydrogen is made from methane and the nitrogen is all around. Natural gas is mostly methane, so still plenty under the North Sea. We have potash mines in Yorkshire, but we do have to import the phosphate, much of it coming from North Africa.

[John Angus]

No they don?t.

Have fun explaining how China managed that until modern fertilizers showed up. And I wasn?t talking about 'organic' and 'sustainable' anyway. Nitrates were used previously and could be again and it could be made from coal instead of from oil too. And nukes could be used as well.

[Chris Hogg]

They almost certainly used animal and human manure, AKA shit. Extensively used in the UK WW2.

"Fertilising the garden was also a headache because farm manure was in short supply. ?One of the richest of all natural substitutes is night soil,? said one gardening author.

It should be mixed with an equal quantity of earth and sprinkled with gypsum. The enterprising local council in Plymouth even sold treated sewage sludge at 1s/1d a ton for geminating tomato seedlings." From

See also

"The Haber process now produces 450 million tonnes of nitrogen fertilizer per year, mostly in the form of anhydrous ammonia, ammonium nitrate, and urea. Three to five percent of the world's natural gas production is consumed in the Haber process" from Wikipedia

[John Angus]

Yes, so Andrews claim, which you deleted from the quoting, that 'organic' and 'renewable' fertilisers can't feed more than

30 million is clearly false.

And if that was gone, coal could be used instead if it had to be.

And nukes too.