removal of vinyl flooring to put down ceramic tiles

[rlz]

I'm am remodeling my 30+ year old kitchen and am having an issue with the removal of the flooring. It originally had a sheet of vinyl flooring, in which someone added on top a layer of 1 ft square stick- on tiles. I am trying remove both layers to get down to the subfloor. Unforunately, when I try to remove the sheet vinyl, only the top section comes off, leaving a paper composit material glued to the floor. Basically the sheet vinyl comes apart, so I can only remove the top of the vinyl, thus leaving this paper composit material.

two questions: A: Is there an easy way to remove this paper composite from the subfloor?

B: I'm going to put down cerarim tiles in a mortar bed on top of the subfloor, is there any problem with just putting the mortar on top of this paper composit material?

Rob

[bob haller]

use a circular saw to cut the underlayment all the way thru, if necessary replace the sub floor/

if theres ANY motion in the floor at all the tile will crack!

Ceramic tile is forever, do the prep work properly!

[Suzy Watson]

2nd that. Whichever way you look at it, this job is going to be much harder than you first thought, but in the long run doing it properly is much easier than shortcutting. You don't say what you are using to remove the vinyl, but I would at least try it with a heavy duty scraper (one of the heavy metal poles with a sharp edge) first. However you get it up, you are going to have to go with a proper base (google it) on top of the plywood anyway, unless you want to be dealing with cracked tiles and joints for the rest of your time with this floor.

[bob haller]

be aware the tile and adhesive may contain asbestos...

at least clean the sub floor, secure it very well, then put down concrete board, and cement edges.

theres a layer you can add forget the name, that prevents cracks.

with ceramic tile proper prep prevents doing the entire job over again

[Mikepier]

Leave the paper, put down 1/4" Hardibacker boards, then put the tiles on top.

[HeyBub]

And this is important because...?

[RogerT]

That's my vote.

To the OP (rlz) who wrote,

"B: I'm going to put down cerarim tiles in a mortar bed on top of the subfloor, is there any problem with just putting the mortar on top of this paper composit material?"

By "mortar bed", do you mean the old fashioned 1"-2" mortar beds that used to be used for abthroom sub floors etc?

[DerbyDad03]

Man, I hope not! Isn't that why they invented cement board?

I tore up a bathroom floor that had a 2"+ mortar bed. What a mess!

Interesting find when I did that:

The 1" tiles right in front of the sink had started to pop. I assumed that since it was the highest traffic area, they had just given out. Once I tore up the floor I discovered what was probably the root cause.

Everywhere in the house (as far as I know) the floor joists are 16" OC. However, from some reason, directly in front of the sink there was a space of 24" between the 2 joists. So, basically, there was no support under the sub-floor in the very spot where people had been standing for 30 years.

If the builder had to make up for an error or something by spacing 2 joists 24" OC, why choose such a high traffic spot?

[aemeijers]

That will make the floor way too tall. Do like the others said, and strip the floor to the plywood, and build back.

[bob haller]

well it might be a health hazard

[chaniarts]

the OP didn't say what the subfloor is, or how thick it is.

[aemeijers]

If house was built mid 50s until 1990ish, I'd bet a six-pack it is particle board underlayment over plywood or diagonal 1x4 subfloor. The old underlayment needs to come up for a top-quality job. Exposing subfloor also allows you to screw the hell out of it, which stiffens floor and cuts down squeaks.

[HeyBub]

Oh.

Well, you're not supposed to EAT the used adhesive. Other than that, I just don't see a problem.

[aemeijers]

Oh, there are fools out there that will try to use a floor sander to get the adhesive lumps and broken-off corners of tile off the old underlayment, and fill the entire house with (slightly) asbestos-bearing dust. Yet another reason to pull up the underlayment, and start over from subfloor level. Score the underlayment with a junk skilsaw between the nail rows (after dampening with a spray bottle to keep down dust, of course), and go at it with a couple of Stanley flatbars and a BFH until you get an edge started. Assuming the cabinets are out, an entire room should strip out in a couple of hours.