OT: The CoOp leading the way?

But that wouldn;t be their choice their choice would be which of them starves to death and which lives a hungar ridden life. Remmber that they have no natural preditors in the UK, no wolves etc.. so they just breed and there ends up to many of them for the local area to sustain.

That's differnt we don't let them starve to death,we are more likely to feed them up. I'm not saying it's right but it is a fact. We won;t even let the runt of the litter die, well get a vet in if it'll help profits, either make it well or kill it, but not leave it to suffer.

and frozen. I had 6 of those delmonti (part of your one a day) ice lollies think I OD'd as I ended up with the guts ache.

First they have to realise what's going on, and whether it is cruel or just nature, with us at the top of the food chain. I was atv a Spanish wedding in spain years ago as my veggie frinds ask for some nom meat food. They were asked why they don't eat meat as that's what God put animals on the Earth for . I expected a massive arguement and raised voives but my veggie friends just shook their heads and walked away.

I did ask my veggoe frined recently whether thier olive oil was vegan, they lok at me confused and said of course it's not meat and its not cruel to pick them.

yes a lot of political back handers especailly in the EU, where everyone is expected to contribute their money to fund cheap meat production and dairy. You're tax money has gone into this in the past, whether that will continue though is a little uncertain.

How can a pint of beer (mostly water) be more expensive than cola , orange juice or even tea. But don;t forget how expensive was but its now so cheap to get it from the other side of the world, but is tea vegan ?

That would be very difficult to do, even if it's the right thing. It's like raising the price of petrol a few fold to offset it;s damage. How many would support that ?

I think it;s more difficult to transport things like fresh veg from the other side of the world that it is to do the same with frozen meat.

Maybe they just get used to it. In todays world in the UK if yuo have gets you don't expect them to die from hunger por disease this is not so true in africa, such things are expected, it;s why they have so many children per adult. Which is also the same with animals.

So why does a spider lay 1000s of eegs ?

My veggies friends parents keep chicken and they do eat their eggs but the are not commercaily sold adn I don;t think they force them to lay eggs.

Oh, I wonder how they managed for the thousands (millions?) of years before we arrived?

We camped near a 'reindeer farm' about 20 years ago so it's been possible to some level for a long time.

So would I, production of food without all the cruelty, exploitation and death.

Cheers, T i m

In general, 'vegan; does. Organic means little (as the animals are still killed against their will).

All science mate.

Of course, but moving animals 1000 miles means it has to be done with them alive ... or dead and typically frozen, moving most veg require neither.

But food miles is a different discussion to the one of causing unnecessary suffering, exploitation and death to animals.

Animals != food (other than to obligate carnivores).

Cheers, T i m

Goes nicely with Gammon... (steaks or roast)

Wolves did the management.

Indeed, but I think rings would be preferable.

Owain

Death is a certainty, pain and suffering are optional. Shame you don't care about animal welfare while the animal is alive.

And what happened to the wolves ...

Cheers, T i m

Death is a natural event for all animals.

Death is a certainty, pain and suffering are optional. Shame you don't care about animal welfare while the animal is alive.

Animals == food (for a natural, balanced diet).

I have never liked having my main course mixed with my pudding <g> and never really liked gammon for that matter.

If we were at a carvery and gammon was the only meat left, I'd just go for more veg and roast potatoes. ;-)

Strange as I didn't mind bacon (trimmed and well done) and have had a few chops?

Cheers, T i m

Well, we didn't eat them.

Owain

No, but we exploited them for *their* fur, again in those days for our

Cheers, T i m

Yes, of course - *you* make the point - but it's not commonly made.

Never knew that - thanks. But I'd extend to human animals - are they paid a decent wage etc? And thinking about it - life of any sort will be affected through human mucking about with food production and much else.

There was an academic on R4 earlier today who just stopped short of saying trees have feelings and are pretty much sentient. I think she was making the point that that's the way we need to be thinking. I reckon she's pretty much right - not that it'd make much difference.

Nuts.

With beer it's mainly tax - one of many government distortions.

I don't know - but don't hens just ovulate 'normally' if kept in the garden and away from bloke hens? And the eggs would just rot down or get eaten somewhere along the food chain if they haven't been fertilised? Need to read up on it :-)

I think I prefer egg!

These dead birds end up somewhere. It makes me wonder how many end up crushed and enter the oil.

It's much like the dead rat that has to added to a cider barrel to make sure that it starts fermenting.

But have you purchased a cola in a pub recently (pre covid) Why is the price of a pint of cola more expensive than a pint of beer.?

The freshest vegetables available en masse are those that are harvested and then frozen within a couple of hours or so.

Those that are harvested for processing into vegan copies of real food require much more processing, of course, but aren't necessarily the freshest available - any old rubbish can go into those as the final meat-like product bears little resemblance to the original constituents.

You need to do some research into the foods you eat, and perhaps those that you don't eat, as sounding off yet again with unfounded claims weakens your position once more.