OT more news for livers tolie about.

On 08/02/2018 01:48, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:

Quite, I recall years ago ITV would pay higher salaries and so a number would abandon the BBC.
It still happens, Jonathan Ross and Jeremy Clarkson are two who jumped into higher salaries.

Then you misunderstand the effect of immigration on wages.

Perhaps the Irish see another side. Their rates of Corporation Tax distort the EU. The Irish haven't seen immigration and same hike in house prices.

You have no idea what trade and other agreements outside the EU, or the agreement with the EU.

Correct, businesses do well, workers do not.

One could say the same about the Tory party, whose electorate have a lower academic standing.

It means our children will pay. Do you really think you get bailed out for free?

If governments like Greece lie about their spending to enter the Euro, it doesn't matter what restriction bankers are under.

Where did that come from?
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This I have a considerable amount of experience of. Things were not good before we entered the EU. The Japanese were "doing deals" with us, and decimating our electronics industry. Probably deserved actually as reliability wasn't a great priority then.
We were screwed by them though, and of course De Lorean too.
Everyone was on the bandwaggon, getting huge subsidies to manufacture in the UK, then close shop if things got a bit rough back home.
Historically we are a trading nation because of our geographical location. When we become a second choice to supply Europe with goods, it's a customer base that I don't ever think we will replace.
The little supply problems and stumbling from crisis to crisis was the norm.
I remember a colleague growing vegetables in his semi because of food increases. He wasn't in a bad job, salaried, company car, yet still felt the pinch.

We have screwed our childrens chances. They had the ability to travel freely anywhere in the EU, to live and work as equals. You want to restrict them to this island and without natural rescources and a complete lack of investment in meaningful education, we are not on a good footing to compete with anyone.
All we can do is work cheap and cut any rules that prevent turning a fast profit.
As I said, EU regulations would have stopped the banks gambling with cash they had not got, but I can guarantee that before the crisis that would have been an instant veto from the UK.
Assuming Farage was paying attention and not in the pub of course :-)

Try Wikipedia, it outlines a lot of little gems about current MP's
Private Eye isn't a bad source too, it may look like a comic book, but its "celebrities" give it a lot of creedence.
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On 08/02/2018 02:30, Fredxx wrote:

Do you think they should have gone bankrupt and the official receiver should have demanded the immediate repayment of the debt. It would certainly have reduce house prices at auction for all those kicked out.
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<snip> >>> No Brexiter has said it will benefit the UK in the short term, it could

And your understanding of English is heavily flawed.
If the best *your* crystal ball can manage is 'could' then at best it's very very cloudy, so cloudy as to be of no real use whatsoever in fact.
And that's the point ... you fanatic Brexiterrs use the word 'could' as if it means 'will' (and should possibly be 'might' in that case) and without a seconds hesitation as to the potential costs (to everyone) of your reckless gamble (with all our monies).
<snip>
But then that's the problem with fanaticism, it removes a persons ability to think rationally, to continue to re-think the situation as the picture unfolds and consider the bigger picture. ;-(
Most ordinary people, given the whole Brexit situation and asked to vote on something where the final plans had not been ratified ... would consider it ridiculous.
I didn't vote because I couldn't vote because I wasn't a political activist, didn't have any gripes with the EU and therefore needed to see what the deal was before being asked for a vote (or final vote) on it.
I would imagine every non-fanatic (from either side) would like the same.
Given the facts, I might well vote and vote to leave.
We haven't left yet and so there is still chance for democracy to prevail (which is all I care about), not just allowing 1/3 of the electorate decide the future for everyone.
Cheers, T i m
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On Thursday, 8 February 2018 00:21:57 UTC, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp w rote:

s
? Even as

ted

House prices are high due to high demand. These immigrants are all living somewhere. We are told the population would be falling if it wasn't for immigration. Ergo reduced/nil immigration = reduced house prices.
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On 08/02/2018 00:06, Fredxx wrote:

That won't be for much longer when the rate doubles.

Why did they vote to leave?
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On 07/02/2018 23:29, Fredxx wrote:

Project fear is a lie made up by brexiteers. The predictions may well come true by the time we leave. Even the so called rise in shares the brexiteers claim was because we are leaving has evaporated now. You don't see any of them saying sorry but we were wrong about that.
The BoE has said it will be increasing the rate soon too so that will cost mortgage payers more and put the pound up.
]
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On Thu, 08 Feb 2018 13:29:46 +0000, T i m wrote:

s/litter/fruit and veg/
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Good idea! Win Win!
We get the fruit picked and they have to see fewer immigrants (not that they would from their ivory/////fantasy towers). ;-)
Cheers, T i m
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On Thu, 8 Feb 2018 17:18:48 +0000, Richard

No. It's tough for you because you *decided* (along with the other 1/3rd of the electorate) that leaving the EU would be a 'good idea' so *you* (in any good society) would be obliged to fall on your sword.
Ok, these days replace 'fall on your sword' with 'making it up to the 2/3rds who *didn't* vote to leave'.

No we aren't. The Brexiteers will simply be getting what they wanted (as I'm guessing *whatever they get* is all part of their bigger plan) and the rest of us have to put up with it, even though it wasn't our choice. And before you get further confused by such logic, the exact same would / will apply if Remain had one and it was later shown that Leaving was the best thing to do. However, all the evidence that has appeared so far suggests Leaving is not even likely to be a good thing for us.

Sorry mate, again you seem to be confused. This is a 'discussion group', the subject was clearly marked OT and if you don't like, understand or agree with any of it you are welcome to jog on. ;-)

By a minority and until it's actually actioned, *nothing* has happened (apart from it costing us a fortune). [1]

Careful what you wish for as you (and your kind) might end up finding out what a persecuted minority feels like. ;-(
You may have to sit out on your allotment 24/7 ...
But hey, you are confident you have done the right thing for all of us so why are you even interested in any conversation on the subject? You won, get over it.
Cheers, T i m
[1] And although nothing is actually happened, it is already 'costing us', even ignoring the administration costs and is guaranteed to do so for many years to come, even just because of the Anglicising of all the EU laws.
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On 08/02/18 18:03, T i m wrote:

Oh. So you are leaving the boat. Great news.

Take that and apply to self.

That is what passes for democracy. Get over it.

I already know what it's like.

Don't have one of those.

I cast my vote. You were too stupid to cast yours.

And?
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On Fri, 9 Feb 2018 06:41:04 +0000, Richard

What?

You were the one complaining about discussion.

Quite.

Or campaign to improve it.

Good. In that case you should be ready for it.

Of course ... you are a Brexiteer ... as long as you are ok ...

Yes, we know.

You are too stupid to understand why I didn't and too low an EQ to care why you don't.

Then it's already costing us loads (£1M/day I read), money that could be going to the NHS instead ...
Cheers, T i m
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On 09/02/18 11:27, T i m wrote:

You snipped and lost context. [snip]

Pissing and moaning here is campaigning? [snip]

That is what makes it possible to make decisions. You know, having sense and courage of convictions.

I try my best.

Oh dear. The EQ crap again. Can't wait for the left/right brain sides. Too bad yours is up the back. [snip]

Or giving me lower taxes.
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On Sat, 10 Feb 2018 07:30:58 +0000, Richard

Where did I say it was? However, it is *discussing* it and that can often be the start.

Quite possibly. Luckily I'm not part of a persecuted minority so I don't.

"the courage to do what one believes is right"
Which in this case translates into 'I think my guesses are better than the other ~50% of the voters of those who also guessed?'
You might be able to vote on your 'beliefs', I'd prefer facts.

<snip>

Of course you would say that, classic left brainer response.

There you are, you didn't have to wait that long did you. ;-)

Except that isn't the case for anyone is it.

You don't live in the UK then?
Ok, you *say* you have or will be enjoying 'lower taxes'. If it's a fact, please tell us why (without bringing 'beliefs' into it)?
Cheers, T i m
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On 10/02/18 11:51, T i m wrote:

Re-read your sentence beginning "Then it's already..." Please try to understand the words you write, and the responses in context.
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On Sun, 11 Feb 2018 12:03:12 +0000, Richard

Whoosh.
Cheers, T i m
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In other words you don't care if the standard of living suffers after Brexit. 'Sovereignty' must be very important to you.
If everyone in the country knew for certain before the referendum they'd be worse off after Brexit, just how many would have voted out?
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On Thu, 08 Feb 2018 18:28:06 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"

So it seems ... even if they can't actually cite a single example of anything that has actually impacted them personally?

Outside of the fanatic Kamikaze Brexiteers, few.
Cheers, T i m
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On 08/02/18 18:28, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

The standard of living will do what was always intended. There is a reason that the average African/American/Japanese inhabitant has a different standard of living to ours.

And you know for certain that it will be worse? Why then, are you not a billionaire?
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Good grief. Economics are pre-ordained.
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Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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