OT: Meat eaters licence (update).

[Fredxx]

No, not all the health advice, just the bits you want to read. They certainly say limit red meat and to switch to a greater content of white meat. All this advice is a fad, likely to change with every study that finds a different conclusion.

Which we accept isn't natural. Eating meat products is.

No more cruel than keeping pets. If you truly want to improve the lot of animals in the abattoir then campaign for the stunning of animals so they are not left upside down bleeding to death while alive.

You're just using the excuse of cruelty to force your values onto those around you but you simply can't see this, or don't want to.

The difference is meat eaters want to improve welfare of animals. When you campaign for the stunning of animals so they are not left upside down bleeding to death while alive, then you would have made a great leap forward.

Then campaign for the stunning of animals so they are not left upside down bleeding to death while alive.

[ARW]

You mean vegan.

[Fredxx]

Except that is not abuse. Only in your eyes is it abuse. No more than abusing a pet in a home environment.

Quite, so campaign for improvements rather than using them as a pathetic excuse to stop eating meat.

If I was shown how to kill, and provided with the appropriate tools not just a knife, which included stunning or rendering the animal unaware of their surroundings then I'm sure after the first few experiences, as the others show in the clip, I could grow to be comfortable with the preparing of pork for my plate.

There would be less cruelty if you supported the improve welfare of animals. When you campaign for the stunning of animals so they are not left upside down bleeding to death while alive, then you would say more about your caring side than anything else you can ever say.

That's right. We've outsourced the preparing of meat for out plates for the sake of efficiency. Perhaps you should be made to manufacture your own B12?

The wave is your own wave. You can't see outside of your small circle. While meat consumption is going up, those with a B12 deficiency have a distorted view of the worl and think it's going down.

I have news, it is going up.

I will make the argument that you don't give a shit about animal welfare. When you campaign for the stunning of animals so they are not left upside down bleeding to death while alive, then I will retract this claim.

Forcing everyone to stop eating meat is your desire, admit it. Where you believe a piece of paper in the way of a licence will help.

[T i m]

<snip pathetic trolling>

'So what you are saying is' and then you type a whole load of BS I haven't said.

You really couldn't be more of a troll if you tried (and I'm sure you are doing you best).

1/10 for your trolling skills. 10/10 for fabrication.

Are we having fun yet?

Cheers, T i m

[Fredxx]

Because of the fat content and obesity.

It doesn't have to be bad, and it isn't wrong. If it is bad then campaign for animal welfare, support then stunning of animals in the abattoir.

B12 isn't BS. It's an important vitamin and deficiency is a precursor for mental illness. The only natural source of B12 is meat products.

Utterly wrong. I have no desire to kill a human being. To think that for most of the population is unbecoming of someone with their full intake of B12. Such a claim can only come from someone with severe mental illness with a distorted view of those around them.

What don't you like about the process, is it the efficiency you dislike?

If you were truly concerned over animal welfare you would campaign for the stunning of animals so they are not left upside down bleeding to death while alive. Reality suggests otherwise.

[Fredxx]

From the ultimate troll. Has Spike said something you don't want to hear?

[Fredxx]

Common amongst those with B12 deficiency.

[Fredxx]

You really couldn't be more of a troll if you tried (and I'm sure you are doing you best).

1/10 for your trolling skills. 0/10 for argument.

[Tim Streater]

Well we don't know, do we Adam? He might well be from Vega, for all we know. Which would mean he was 153,000,000,000,000 miles from home. That could account for a lot.

[T i m]

Along with a *load* of other stuff of course.

I am, a planet were folk don't torture and kill animals just to placate their desire to eat their flesh.

Didn't seem that far in our ship, but then we are way in advance of you animal torturers.

It certainly accounts for our confusion why you think it's not acceptable to hurt some animals but perfectly acceptable to hurt others?

You need a vitamin that you can no longer acquire naturally, so you synthesise it, feed it to innocent animals (that you have bred artificially and store away from their natural surroundings) and then kill and eat the animals (after heating their flesh because you can't digest it otherwise), just to get the vitamin you could have eaten directly!

And you eat the embryos of birds and drink the lactate of a different species after you have weaned.

You are one confused (and backward / barbaric) species!

Cheers, T i m

[Spike]

You enjoy a discussion, as long as it's you doing the discussing. Any hint of a contrary opinion, or questioning what you claim, is met with the above.Does that sound like the product of a balanced, enquiring mind? I don't think so.

[T i m]

I do.

Not much of a discussion then is it? See, I'm not like you, Fredxx or Crazy Jim who are happy to talk to themselves, a real discussion requires the active participation of two or more and with both parties willing to concede valid points etc. You choose to eat meat, eggs, cheese and drink cows milk and so 'of course' you are going to try to defend *your choice*, with no consideration whatsoever for the welfare of the animals you have killed or exploit to satisfy your *choice*.

I've *chosen* not to do any of those things because it's the *only way* to remove the pain and suffering those animals have to endure. And just so you don't end up repeating the same old BS and the Fredxx bot, it's not just the death of the animals that is the issue (and far from it).

Nope, well formed contrary opinions are welcomed.

Ad long as it supported with fact, not *just* a contrary option ...

Nope. Just stupid trolling and repeated BS gets that sort of response.

It does, yes.

Of course you don't, because you are a troll and not actually here for a discussion. But at least I'm currently talking to/at you, in contrast with the Fredxx bot who repeats the same bogus BS over and over (more than you do) so I don't need to read any more of it.

So, where this discussion you were talking about where you *think* can counter the idea that the 'farming' and exploitation of any animals can ever be considered humane, compassionate or acceptable, especially on the levels it's currently at?

If you can't even start to concede that then you don't have anything I'm interested in. If you aren't part of the solution you are part of the problem and to be part of the solution you just have to stop supporting it.

Cheers, T i m

[ARW]

Vega is a star, not a planet.

[ARW]

It does not matter how far away from home he is.

It's obvious he lives in a bungalow.

[Robin]

<snip>

Given your combination of expertise and openness to reasoned discussion I can't think of anyone better to act as a missionary for veganism. Eg I I'd love to see you go to persuade Arctic peoples to abandon their nomadic cultures which rely on exploiting reindeer - and sometimes horses too.

[Fredxx]

A real discussion of animal welfare would include welfare at abattoirs. But you choose not to care or say why you are against improvements in animal welfare.

In short your arguments are flawed and you are unable to discuss pertinent improvements to animal welfare.

<snip>

Quite, you don't give a shit about real improvements in animal welfare.

You are the problem. You just can't see it.

[Tim Streater]

True. But I expect it's the only life-bearing planet in the Vega System (for some value of "life"), so I used the same name as a convenient shorthand.

[T i m]

Thanks.

And why would you think I would try to?

Cheers, T i m

[Robin]

Your "...exploitation of any animals can ever be considered humane, compassionate or acceptable,".

So do please tell how you argue that using reindeer for their meat, hides and antlers, for milk and for transportation is not "exploitation". Or that reindeer are not "animals".

[Richard]

<snip>

Good grief! People *eat* reindeer? You mean, they're not just for Christmas?

:'(