OT:EU, our friend and ally?

[The Natural Philosopher]

It would seem that if the EU had an army, they would have declared war on us.

As it is, they have declared economic war.

With friends like that.....

[Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp]

How do you arrive at that conclusion?

We are still part of the EU incidentally.

Like everyone else, the rest of the EU has no idea what Britain realistically wants. Once again the Conservative government are trying to pin the reasons for their own total incompetence on someone else.

"Under the last labour government" was wearing a bit thin, so their stupid bungling incompetence has to be assigned to the nearest substitute.

AB

[dennis]

Don't you brexshiteers ever give up with yourcr@p. You won get over it and shut up!

[The Natural Philosopher]

So is catalonia...

Whoosh!

[T i m]

I think they are (or should be and quite rightly) very embarrassed for being so weak willed that they felt harassed into placing a vote in the first place, (especially one that changes the status quo) without any real 'to most people' facts to work from. ;-(

So now they come up with all sorts of BS (and it's obvious that it's no more than that as none of us have read the 58 independent reports the government have *since* commissioned to actually know what the final outcome from leaving might be).

Not that some of the more fanatical Brexiteers care about *fact* of course, as long at they think there is a hope of getting their

*personal* goal or helping their *personal* crusade. ;-(

Had the question been 'Vote if you want out of the EU', then only 17M of the 46M would have made a mark, making it 17M leave and 30M, not-to-leave ... and we wouldn't be in the position we are in now (whatever that is).

Scrap the first non binding 'poll' publish the reports for all to read, ask 'Who still wants to leave' and as long as at least 2/3rds of the electorate vote leave, we carry on with the status quo (for now anyway).

*That* might be a bit closer to an 'informed will of the people'. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

[Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp]

Yes? Did anyone suggest that it wasn't?

Catalonia wanted autonomy from Spain, not the EU, so I really don't see what relavance it has.

Scotland had a referendum also, why did you not factor that in if you think it is of consequence?

Scotland would also remain in the EU as an independent country.

AB

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Since they have got their way, you'd have thought they'd have a clear plan of the way ahead. But that apparently depends on getting their own way with the EU too in negotiations. And with the rest of the world. No surprise the whole thing is such a shambles.

[The Natural Philosopher]

And we did not arrest Salmond and Sturgeon for having a referendum., In fact it was done with he UK's blessing.

We have a tradition of preferring to let peole have a say rather than have armed repression.

Thats why we dont fit in with the EU.

[Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp]

You mean all this talk of a second Scots referendum is pointless?

Yes May was all for the second one wasn't she.

When did the EU encourage armed repression?

As far as I'm aware Catalonia wasn't encouraged in it's activities by the EU, of anyone else on the planet. I suspect that the Express might have supported them but the UK didn't.

AB

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Yes. Done within the law of the UK. Unlike the Catalonian one. Does this mean as a confirmed right wing brexiteer you think it's ok to work outside the law of the land?

And I'd guess you just hate that.

[The Natural Philosopher]

And then another 50 lines of crap from YOU!

Doublethink.

[Fredxxx]

You are conveniently forgetting the referendum was a once in a lifetime poll. Best get used to it or be seen as a poor loser Remoaner.

You should now be moving forward rather than living in the past.

[Tim Streater]

The instruction from the electorate was to take us out of the EU. That means no single market, no customs union, no ECJ, no money to Brussels, no free movement, no new EU law. Anything other than this means you've not left.

It's really very simple, so I don't know why you're having such trouble with it.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Yes, If scotland wants to remain in the EU. The EU said it loud and clear They went and shouted in her ear

Seceding territories do not remain in te EU.

They are afraid that perpignan, catalonia, pays Basque and Normandy might want independence too.

[T i m]

Exactly.

"What do we want? "We think we know but we all differ as to exactly what that is ..." "When do we want it (whatever it turns out to be)?" "Now and as quickly as possible, even before anyone actually has even an idea what the 'it' is .."

"Hey, Sky, I want to cancel my subscription but I still want all the TV shows I want but don't want to have to put up with those shows I don't." (Or I'll throw my toys out of the pram).

Apparently, some think that the WTO (and equally advantageous to us) rules are a direct alternative?

Quite.

How will they know if / when they have got what they (thought) they wanted when there is little agreement between them as to what *they* (even) *want*, let alone what they will actually get?

The only thing they seem to have in common is that we (all) leave the EU and they really don't care what the *cost* might be to all of us. ;-(

Cheers, T i m

[Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp]

Really?

AB

[Mark]

They'll either be dead before the ill effects really manifest, or they are rich enough not to care.

If a man stands in a forest and no woman is around to hear him, is he still wrong?

[Mark]

If it was simple, would the government be having so much trouble with it themseleves?

[Capitol]

Politicians have trouble with any decision. In this case, they don't want the decision and are trying to put it off. The people are gettingvery fed up.

[T i m]

And you seem to be forgetting a key word there was that it 'officially' only 'a poll'. The government may had said they would follow up whatever the outcome but democracy isn't static, it's not set in time and can (and does) evolve in time.

See above. There is nothing 'cut and dried' about any of it.

Moving forward into (possibly) the Lions Den irrespective? No common sense suggesting (or at least remaining open to) the thought that we may have made the wrong guess (as that's all it can be without the facts)? It is as if you have been caught with your fingers on the button, the rocket is in the air, you have no idea where it is going (including landing back on us so we could all suffer) but still try to justify the button push?

Why don't you actually reveal the facts (and I'm guessing they *must* be facts and you wouldn't be risking so much on just a hunch or coin toss ... would you?) and then we can all really be working in the same direction?

So cummon, you seem to be convinced that leaving *is* the right thing for most people, so you mush have some pretty indisputable proof how you *know* we aren't just going from the frying pan into the fire?

Sharing is good ... ;-)

Cheers, T i m