OT:EU, our friend and ally?

What about your disability due to your claimed ill health? If it is as bad as you claimed you will be getting PIP and mobility at the least. Maybe you just lie?

A coward that doesn't like the truth I see.

Given how few posts I have made in the last few weeks I can see no other reason for such an action.

Explains why you are so bitter. You cocked those up as well as so much else.

Speaking for others again. The true sign of a megalomaniac.

The EU, which includes the UK, in case you don't know, has agreed to fund a lot of development projects throughout the EU. As the UK agreed to fund these projects along with the rest of the EU I think they may well have a legal basis to say we should continue to fund them. If I were a foreign government I would look twice at any agreement with the UK if we just ignore what we agreed to. You being a brexshiteer will ignore commitments and claim that the foreign government will be falling over themselves to do deals even f we might break them.

I believe that EU leaders will stir up as much trouble as they can for the UK with NI just as they did with Scotland and Sturgeon.

They're called the nationalists and there has been quite a bit of Trouble over the matter in the last 40 years.

So cancel them.

You are entitled to think that but no lawyers seem to agree with you.

No different to any other treaty. Any country can withdraw from a treaty

- and in this case we are doing so in accordance with the agreement laid down in Article 50 of said treaty.

Till death us do part.

They could start by getting rid of state sponsored faith schools.

OTOH Referenda can be democratic if the electorate is well-informed. If politicians think that people are not sufficiently informed to vote on one issue, how can they be informed enough to vote in a general election, which covers policies on a lot more than one issue?

No. You cannot assume anything about the people who didn't vote without asking them.

Oh dear.

And are all these nations part of the UK now, with no independence at all?

Scotland has more freedom with repsect to the UK than greece does with respect to te EU.

It isn't. And what if there is another referendum which has a small majority of staying in the EU? It could be complicated rejoining and we'd probably rejoin with a poorer deal. i.e without Mrs T's rebate.

There would be (and is) a big fuss anyway.

--snip--

You've only got 13 million to find, don't take too long ...

It's your assumption - up to you to prove.........

The problem is, that is a very big IF. It's a big IF for several reasons: (IMHOOC)

a) The difference between left and right aren't what they once may have been. That in part is because 'the people' won't accept anything that is too radical any more. eg, the main parties are only walking either side of an ever narrowing path.

b) People now know more about what is going on at a social media level and so can gain 'opinions' (true or otherwise) easier than they once could. I don't think many then go past that.

c) Partly because of b), many people don't trust 'politicians' so have little faith in the whole process.

eg. An ex boss used to vote one way at the local elections as he felt they would do the best for him personally and a different way in the general elections because he felt that would be better for the country.

Quite.

The point is I'm pretty sure we all know someone who has voted at a local, regional, national or European level for some bizarre or bogus reason(s).

Both my mum and daughter voted remain in the EU poll, simply to counter the votes of two racists that they know. My mum voted remain because it was 'the devil she knew'. Others have voted for things and others to shop others getting into power ... or as a protest against the status quo or those currently in power (not because they consider the alternatives any better).

So FMPOV, 'pointless voting', voting for any other reason than the subject in hand or from no real level of understanding actually makes you part of the problem, not part of the solution.

The solution comes when enough people who know what they are talking about join together and proactively make a real difference.

That would be like a good businessman taking over a failing company and turning it round, even if that mean closing some offices and making people redundant.

That wouldn't be like what we seem to have atm where there is a big meeting then an expensive lunch to conclude they can save 15k a year by replacing the tea lady with a vending machine (that ends up costing more to run, produces a less satisfying result and is less reliable).

So, whilst democracy allows people to think they are in charge, they rarely are and even if they get the result they think they want, it may not be the best for them.

Cheers, T i m

They seem to be keeping very quiet over Catalonia.

And that (for those of us with open minds and looking to do the 'right thing') is another big factor.

Selling your house before you have even seen the new one, let alone knowing what the selling fees are going to be or what it's like living in the new house would seem bonkers to most.

Cheers, T i m

Strange that. :)

No, to be fair to Andy it was 13 million who didn't vote as my vote was counted within those, even though I turned up and marked my paper.

The *problem* that might have accounted for what could be considered as apathy is that many weren't (officially) given a voice in that poll.

There were obviously people who thought they had enough information to vote for leave, as there were who voted remain.

However, I bet there was many within each who would have preferred some more granularity on the basic Yes / No question as they may have wanted X but not at the cost of Y.

I wonder how many of the 13M and even the 16 and 17M who might have ticked the 'I'd like to know more before making a choice' box, had there been one?

Cheers, T i m