OT:EU, our friend and ally?

[bert]

And would you decide what the British public wants by having a referendum?

[Andy Burns]

Quite probably it was short-sighted not to set a higher threshold, but if there was an indecisive result, is that it, we keep status quo? Or should we have kept voting every few years until we got a decisive result, to positively stay or to leave?

There were plenty of other short-sighted things regarding the Europe over the last decade or so ...

You can't do anything about those who don't vote, other than assume they're happy with the result that others decide.

[JoeJoe]

Hope not too early, as JC the fool hasn't decided what his view on Brexit is yet... Maybe he is waiting on Dianne Abbott to do the numbers first.

[T i m]

Quite.

It was as if we *suddenly* had to do it for some reason?

And there can't be can there ... they are just like yobbos goading each other on. ;-(

Good observation.

Quite.

Yup. They all need tattooing so we know who to get to do all the jobs the Europeans were doing before they were sent home, as it was their idea after all. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

[Steve Walker]

Any such raised threshold is rather undemocratic, as it effectively gives a huge built-in advantage to the status quo.

Would you apply such a rule in general elections, giving the incumbent party an almost unassailable advantage?

Can you imagine the fuss though if there had been a higher threshold and a majority of those who voted had voted to leave, but had not achieved the threshold?

Yes, this rubbish about only 37% voting to leave. It was 52% of those that could be bothered to vote. If you want to start including non-voters, you can just as easily say that only 34% voted to stay.

SteveW

[Capitol]

Inverted reasoning1 Bearing in mind that the result was 56% for leaving and 44% for being governed by an unelected quango in Brussels once you discount the 1M Irish republic votes which should never have been allowed!

[Capitol]

Envy!

[Capitol]

Still totally deluded I see. The Camoron years were a wasted opportunity to straighten out the UK economy.

[Capitol]

So you want an election every year? Another referendum would show a massive majority for leaving the EU according to most polls.

[T i m]

Yes, of course? Democracy isn't a stationary thing but something that is *constantly* evolving and changing. If we took a question like 'Hands up who wants us to leave the EU' and around a third of the electorate vote 'Yes'. then it's up to them to try to convince the rest of the population why leaving would be 'a good thing'. It's exactly the same thing that didn't happen in Catalonia when 80% of the

40% who voted leave thought they should determine what the remaining (majority) should do.

I'm sure there are ... but I'm guessing there must also be some good things or 1) we wouldn't have joined in the first place and 2) would have got out sooner?

I believe you can when it is simply a choice of changing from the status quo or not. eg. It's not up to those who are happy for things to be as they are to have to vote.

If you ask a group, 'Who want's an ice cream?', do those who don't want one, have to put their hand up and say no? Why should those who aren't bothered either way have to answer at all?

What about those who haven't had an ice cream before and who need to find out more about them to know if they are likely to want one or not ... or those who have just had one elsewhere and don't want another just then etc ...

Cheers, T i m

[pamela]

I guess Cameron must be ridden with angst for not following your advice on how to run the country. Maybe next time you will stand as a parliamentary candidate.

[T i m]

As there should be shouldn't there? Shouldn't there be a reasonable large percentage of the population who decide on such 'democratic' things? How is 49/51 a 'clear indication' of the 'will of the people'?

If the question was 'shall we remove the incumbent from power, hands up?', then yes. If you are voting *for* more than one choice then (ideally) there should be a clear winner but the rules are different compared with a show of hands 'poll'.

No? Rules is rules. 'Will of 'the people' should really reflect that.

Except, you aren't considering it in the real world situation.

We were in the EU. The question really was, 'Who want's to leave the EU?' (wasn't it)?

The question was:

'Hands up if you want to change from the status quo' as the outcome was either we do (voted for by those who do), or we don't, when the number of those who voted to leave is greater than the number of those who didn't vote to leave. Even if that had been a 51/49 for leave, it might actually be closer to demonstrating 'the will of the people'.

Just because it wasn't what we did, doesn't mean it wasn't the right thing to do. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

[T i m]

Yup ... and the frightening thing is that we / they still don't know! ;-(

Cheers, T i m

[pamela]

Can you show me a recent poll with that "massive majority".

[T i m]

And that puts us where in the world debt table?

Ok?

But presumably still a rough indication of a countries general success as seen in global terms?

Me neither, but then I don't need to (assuming the above thoughts are valid etc).

Cheers, T i m

[Dave Plowman (News)]

I hope you voted against the Tories at the last election since they have never said that's what they were negotiating for.

[Tjoepstil]

typical remoaner: knows what others think even when they dont think it.

Dense: i've killfiled you again on this machine, so a last word.

You have come to the conclusion - which is correct - that for there to be such a divide of opinion, one or other of the two sides must have been totally fooled and believed a lot of lies.

Or in fact both.

What you can't accept, is it might be your side.

trillions are at stake.

Why would they *not* lie to you?

[Tjoepstil]

of course none of my pensions are index linked except basic OAP

[Tjoepstil]

you actually believe that?

rest of UK would love to ditch NI, but sadly the people there don't want to go.

[Simon Jones]

Must explain Ireland last century, Scotland the century before that, Kenya, Aden etc more recently etc.